My Panthers are dying... why?

[jamora]

Pls. does anyone know what can be wrong...
2 months ago i bought 2 Panther Chameleons, a male, 8 months old, and a female, 6 months old. Then after two months, they both die within the same week. They each have a 100x50x50 cage, with plenty of ventilation. I live in Thailand, so I had them outside in the shade, with live plants in their cages. They had clean water dripping all the time from a sprinkler system, and they both ate and drank well every day (they ate crickets, and I gave them vitamins and calcium in their water once a week), they were out of the cage twice a week the most.
First the male died, I checked on him in the morning, were he was drinking and eating and looking well, and when I came home 5 hours later, he was lying dead on the ground. Same story with the female, just happened 4 days later.
I really liked them, and would love a new couple, but I want to make sure that they wont die. I did exactly what the salesman told me, but I must have done something wrong... Can it be to hot? Wrong diet? Stress?
I bought them at a market, where I later have been told that the animals sometimes are in a poor condition, but then they should have died earlier I think?!
Pls. if anyone know what I am doing wrong, help?
(I am new to Chameleons, but have had several other reptile pets before, that never died)

 

[Rocky]

Fill out this form and it will help people know exactly is going on to see if they can help you
Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.



It seems like you are doing the right things. The cages seem pretty small. I'm assuming that it is 100cm so you have like a 3.5ft x 2ft x 2ft (ish) which is actually to small for a full grown panther but i dont think it would of killed them at that age. Have the temperatures drastically changed? Could ants of gotten in and attacked them?

If you do get new chameleons I would suggest getting larger cages for them.

Really sorry to hear about your loss as well

 

[jukeboxpunk]

Temps?

What is Thailand's natural temperatures? Is it too humid or too hot? Heat exhaustion maybe?

 

[Lancecham]

Yes, fill out the form as mentioned. I am not sure the temperature in Thialand, but if the cage was left in the sun or the weather was too warm, the heat could have been a factor. I raise most of mine outside, and when the weather is warm/hot an automatic misting system keeps them cool. But please fill out the form and we will go from there.

 

[dodolah]

thailand temp and humidity should be similar to Indonesia and back then I raised a veiled easily there. As long as you gave them ventilated screen cage and adequate lightings and heat, you should be fine.
Could you fill in the form Rocky gave you?

After filling it in, then we will help you pinpoint what is wrong with your care.

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry for your loss. Its frustrating losing them when you don't know why.

I'm glad you want to learn more before getting another one though.

You said..."I gave them vitamins and calcium in their water once a week"....I only give mine vitamins twice a month and I use a phos.-free calcium powder at most feedings.

Sorry...I'm in a hurry...I'll take a closer look at your post later.

 

[Sang]

well, just throwing this out.


they could of been wild caught, and they could of had some kind of parasite you were not aware of. that could of very easley been the culprit.

 

[sandrachameleon]

well, just throwing this out.
they could of been wild caught, and they could of had some kind of parasite you were not aware of. that could of very easley been the culprit.

This is what I was thinking too.
We'll make better guesses when we get the more detailed description of husbandry

 

[Marc10edora]

Do you have any poisonous bugs in the area? Maybe they ate one?

 

[FooL111394]

Poisonous bugs was what I was thinking. You should do a little research on native insects around your area.

 

[Dsignrguy]

since you had them for a couple of months without issue, then they suddenly died within 4 days of each other,I would guess some kind of poisoning...either food or water source. maybe your feeders ate something that was toxic to your cham, but not them.

sorry you lost them

 

[jamora]

More info

Thanks for all the response. I have filled out the list below:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
The front door is acrylic, all the other sides are made of a fine net, where ants and mosquitoes cannot get through. (100x50x50) cm.
* Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
They live outside in the shade, but in the lower 1/3 the sun can shine at some time everyday.
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
They have outdoor temp. of Thailand, which is approx. 33 C at day and 28 C at night. the temp is coldest in the middle of the cage, the sun can get in in the bottom, and they are covered with a roof, where the heat can gather under. But it is only a couple of degrees difference.
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
The humidity is around 70%, depending on rainfall.
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
They have live plants, its called figus(something), read about it online, and they were recommended for chameleons.
* Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Its outdoor, on second floor balcony of my house in Bangkok, the area does not have a lot of traffic.

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Panther, one male (8 months) and one female (6 months) and they have been in my care for 2 months.
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Twice a week the most.
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
They eat crickets, around 8 pr. day +/- a couple. The feeders eat fresh vegetables.
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
It is VitaRep, and i follow the instructions. It says once a week.
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
They have dripping system, so water is dripping several places in the habitat. I see them drinking everyday.
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
The male was green/blue, with slightly red legs. The female was light brown/grayish, with darker panther patterns. Their droppings looked normal. They have not been tested for parasites.
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
They were bought at a market in Bangkok, where I later have been told that many of the animals are in a poor condition when sold.

For other questions, there have not been any other bugs inside the cage (at least what i know of, and they do not have any real poisonous bugs in Bangkok.
About the ants, I have not seen any ants in the cage.
About their origin. I do not know for sure whether they are wild caught or not, sales people in this part of the world, will say a lot, to sell their goods.

I would like to thank everybody for helping me out, i appreciate it a lot!

 

[dodolah]

what is the color of the poop?
Black? is it watery?
Also the urate (the white part) is it yellow, orange, or any other color?

Do you catch your own bugs? or do you buy from petstore?
My guess right now is parasites or certain toxic such as fertilizer or chemical from the plants or chemical eaten by feeders.

Another one is that the store sold you a very sick animal already to begin with.

 

[albacheck]

28°C night-temperature are way to high, chameleons need to be able to decrease their metabolism at night, in order to stay healthy on the long run.
33°C in the shade is to warm too, your chameleons should have a retreat-area with no more than 25°C.