My panther chameleon is vomiting/regurgitating his food

[saskiat]

Hi,
I have 2 male panther chameleons, both get the same food and have the same cage setup. One of them is vomiting his food. 10 days ago I found a weird pellet of undigested crickets. I thought it was undigested poop and didnt worry.
But today I saw him hanging upside down, doing a weird rib movement, like a snake, and vomited out a pellet exactly like the one I found earlier.
He is still looking relatively healthy, al be it less plump and hydrated then a while back.

He still seems hungry and eats a lot, but apperantly he's not digesting.
He's also a little bit wobbly, sometimes he slighly falls off the branch but keeps holding on hanging upside-down.

Googling this issue is giving me no awnsers, the only reasons I could find were: eating too much, drinking too much or being so sick near to dying.
I am calling a vet clinic as soon as it opens, the good reptile specialised one near me is closed right now.
Have you ever seen anything like this? What could be the cause?

Photos:
1st image is what he looked like 2 months ago
2d is the vomit pellets
4 to 6 is images of him just now

• Your Chameleon - Panther chameleon Mitso. He is about 4 to 5 years old. Ive had him since he was 3 months old.
• Handling - He is very tame and often looks like he wants to get out of his cage (scratching the wire) I'd say i handle him 2 times a week.
• Feeding - I feed him normal crickets, gutloaded with fruits, vegetables, dry cat food, and reptile nutrigrub. I put feeders in a bin in his cage daily, about 8 but he eats about 4 to 6 a day.
• Supplements - Repticalcium (no d3) 5 days a week, minerall-outdoor once a week, vit-all (no d3) once every two weeks, minerall-indoor(with d3) once every two weeks.
• Watering - I spray with hand once a day and have a misting system going off 6 times a day for 30 seconds. i see him drinking.
• Fecal Description - He has not pooped in a while - I think. I couldnt find any.
• History - He sits in the lower section of his cage a lot, while the other cham often sits way higher, below his lamp.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - the reptibreeze that is not the biggest (18*18*36). I have a wooden wall around the bottom and 3 sides of the cage to prevent too much humidity loss.
• Lighting - 13 hours a day light. normal heat lamp and UV-light (reptisun 5.0 H0 lamp, 12 inches. recently replaced, the other cham has an arcadia 6% 20 inch lamp)
• Temperature - day: 32c in highest place, 22c in lowest place. At night it gets 22c at its lowest. I use laser thermometer to measure.
• Humidity - misted 6x a day for 30 seconds. not sure what the humidity is, but i think it is in the right area.
• Plants - ficus plant in the center and some plastic plants at the bottom. some bamboo sticks for walking around.
  Placement - top of cage is about eye level. they are on the sunny side of my house (some sunlight from window gets into cage)
• Location - netherlands

 

[Thehippie]

sounds like he isnt passing anything which may be a result of impaction, let me review your husbandry and ill try to give you an educated guess.

 

[Thehippie]

• Your Chameleon - Panther chameleon Mitso. He is about 4 to 5 years old. Ive had him since he was 3 months old.
• Handling - He is very tame and often looks like he wants to get out of his cage (scratching the wire) I'd say i handle him 2 times a week.
• Feeding - I feed him normal crickets, gutloaded with fruits, vegetables, dry cat food, and reptile nutrigrub. I put feeders in a bin in his cage daily, about 8 but he eats about 4 to 6 a day. switch to everyother day feeding
• Supplements - Repticalcium (no d3) 5 days a week, minerall-outdoor once a week, vit-all (no d3) once every two weeks, minerall-indoor(with d3) once every two weeks.
• Watering - I spray with hand once a day and have a misting system going off 6 times a day for 30 seconds. i see him drinking.
• Fecal Description - He has not pooped in a while - I think. I couldnt find any.
• History - He sits in the lower section of his cage a lot, while the other cham often sits way higher, below his lamp.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - the reptibreeze that is not the biggest (18*18*36). I have a wooden wall around the bottom and 3 sides of the cage to prevent too much humidity loss. should be 2x2x4
• Lighting - 13 hours a day light. normal heat lamp and UV-light (reptisun 5.0 H0 lamp, 12 inches. recently replaced, the other cham has an arcadia 6% 20 inch lamp) should be 12 hours on 12 hours off
• Temperature - day: 32c in highest place, 22c in lowest place. At night it gets 22c at its lowest. I use laser thermometer to measure.
• Humidity - misted 6x a day for 30 seconds. not sure what the humidity is, but i think it is in the right area.should be at least twice a day for 2-4 mins
• Plants - ficus plant in the center and some plastic plants at the bottom. some bamboo sticks for walking around. take the fake plants out, panthers usually dont eat them but just in case its better safe than sorry because if they do eat them it will cause impaction, look for missing leaves or bite marks he may have tried to ingest some.
  Placement - top of cage is about eye level. they are on the sunny side of my house (some sunlight from window gets into cage)
• Location - netherlands

for the most part i cant see much wrong with your set up, although i think that your best bet is getting him tested for parasites and/or x ray for impaction. his body sounds like its shutting down and fast, you gotta get the dude to the vet when they open up asap

edit: if hes trying to get out, there is something in his cage he doesn't like.

 

[snitz427]

Get him to a vet as soon as possible. If they wont' see him today, try another vet. My guess would be impaction, as well.

 

[JacksJill]

Don't know if this has been said but don't feed him anymore until he sees the vet. He can have water if he wants it.

 

[MissSkittles]

Probably want to eliminate the cat food from your gutloading. Can cause elevated uric acid which affects kidneys badly.

 

[saskiat]

Thanks for the advice everyone!
Called the vet, they suspect kidney failure, mainly because of the weak grip on the branches and indigestion.
Its pretty common for older chams to get I believe

I am visiting the vet tuesday, untill then she adviced me to force feed soft cat food.
This is literally the only specialised reptile vet in my country, so I have to wait untill tuesday.

Is there anything I can do untill then to ensure its not constipation?
When bearded dragons get constipated you can bathe them, would this work for chameleons?

 

[MissSkittles]

Thanks for the advice everyone!
Called the vet, they suspect kidney failure, mainly because of the weak grip on the branches and indigestion.
Its pretty common for older chams to get I believe

I am visiting the vet tuesday, untill then she adviced me to force feed soft cat food.
This is literally the only specialised reptile vet in my country, so I have to wait untill tuesday.

Is there anything I can do untill then to ensure its not constipation?
When bearded dragons get constipated you can bathe them, would this work for chameleons?

No, soaking does not help chams like that. Just keep hydrating well.

 

[JacksJill]

Has your chameleon passed any poop at all have you seen any urates lately? if so what did they look like?
I find it odd that an animal with kidney failure has a strong appetite they usually don't.

 

[JacksJill]

Some people have had success feeding veiled that were impacted baby food pears or cooked pumpkin (plain not pie filling) to ease things through. They are high in fibre.

 

[saskiat]

Has your chameleon passed any poop at all have you seen any urates lately? if so what did they look like?
I find it odd that an animal with kidney failure has a strong appetite they usually don't.

Yeah, thats true. I had a cham with kidney failure a few years back and it did not eat at all and was much more letargic.
I am pretty sure he pooped once this week. maybe 4 to 5 days ago. It was a really small poop with a hard white urate with a orange bit on it.
I remember because I saw some sperm plugs hanging out.
Maybe it was longer than 4 days. I dont remember..
I'll try a pear. can they eat those? Is the sugar in them not bad for them?

I Really hope he'll be alright but usually when the disease symptoms start showing its too late to do anything...

 

[JacksJill]

I wouldn't make it a normal part of their diet, obviously, because of the sugar but it has been used as a therapeutic option for a day or two. I hope he improves.
Again because he is vomiting I would either fast him for a little while or only give very small amounts initially to see if he holds it down.

 

[snitz427]

Is it odd they suggested force feeding cat food? Maybe try hornworms, in addition to pear, when he's able to eat. They have a high moisture content so he may be able to digest some of it before vomiting, but it may also help him pass the stool. I loaded Charlie up with 3 of them when I thought he might be constipated (after being on meds for 10 days)... turns out he was just hiding his poop well, but the hornworms certainly got things moving!

Im not a vet, or expert in any degree... but I'm surprised they jumped to kidney failure before impaction.

 

[kinyonga]

@saskiat what country are you in?

Cats can't make their own vitamin A so cat food has to contain prEformed vitamin A which can build up in your chameleons system and lead to issues....and yet the vet said for you to use cat food?? Unreal.

Do you have substrate in the cage? If so, what?

 

[saskiat]

I just gave him a little bit of chopped pear (half a teaspoon) and a bit of cat food. hope he holds it down.
He ate one cricket yesterday after vomiting a bunch, and I believe he hasn't vomited that one out as well.
There seems to be nothing wrong with his appetite (he was a little too fat before this)
Which makes it even more sad because he must be very hungry
He also drank a lot of water this morning.
It will be hard to monitor if he vomits or not, but Ill take out all the fake plants and clean the bottom so I can see it better.
Hope he'll be okay

 

[saskiat]

@saskiat what country are you in?

Cats can't make their own vitamin A so cat food has to contain prEformed vitamin A which can build up in your chameleons system and lead to issues....and yet the vet said for you to use cat food?? Unreal.

Do you have substrate in the cage? If so, what?

Its a good vet, I trust her completely.
I have been to several vets who claimed to be reptile specialised, but they all misdiagnosed or mistreated my animals.
This vet has a lot of experience.
I think the cat food is just to get some calories in him, such a small dose for two days probably can't lead to a big buildup of vitamins, right?
I chose a brand with no added vitamin A.
There is no substrate in my cage, just some dead plant leaves and some fake plants (which can apperantly cause problems)
He still seems pretty energetic and all, but chameleons are great at faking that unfortunately.

 

[snitz427]

Do you have a store nearby that sells hornworms? I dont know the vets reasoning for cat food - but hornworms and silkworms are very juicy and I think he could eat them without force feeding... while still getting a little nutrition plus a bit of a laxative effect. It might help soften it if its just poop/consitpation

 

[saskiat]

Do you have a store nearby that sells hornworms? I dont know the vets reasoning for cat food - but hornworms and silkworms are very juicy and I think he could eat them without force feeding... while still getting a little nutrition plus a bit of a laxative effect. It might help soften it if its just poop/consitpation

They are really hard to find. Apperantly they are illegal in the UK because they are a pest. So I guess that counts for the rest of Europe as well. see this thread.
Silkworms are available but getting them shipped now, on a saturday night, they would probably arrive on tuesday.
Besides that its cold outside so they'd probably die before reaching my door.
So for the overlapping period Ill still need something that isnt hard or chitinous for him to eat.
Maybe wax moth larvae? he really loves those and I can buy them, they are very fattening I believe.

 

[saskiat]

welp went to the vet today.I don't think he has vomited in the past few days, so thats good! he also did not eat a whole lot, however. But:
Its likely not caused by kidney failure, as he still shoots his crickets accurate and does not have swollen joints or ankles.
Its not constipation because he pooped on sunday
Its not parasites because there was nothing strange in his poop.

So it could be:
1. beginning of kidney failure (but not really bad yet)
2. a stomach tumor or something rare like that
3. him sitting in the bottom of his cage too often, where it is cold, so he does not digest properly (AKA he is a dumbass)
4. something completely different

Hope its the 3rd option lol.
For now Ive been advised to feed him wax moths and cat food to see if he stops vomiting.
If its not better in a week, she'll do a blood test to check kidney function

 

[kinyonga]

Here's a formula you can use to feed your chameleon...
https://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/bug-juice.html

I'm still concerned about the cat food in your gutload and now in the food the vet is giving you to give tomyour chameleon. Too much prEformed vitamin A can mess with the D3 and that affects the D3 levels and then that affects the calcium. Wax moths have a lot of fat in them and will IMHO encourage storage of prEformed vitamin A in the cat food. I'm not a vet though...this is just my opinion based on what over read, etc over the years of keeping chameleons.

Hopefully you get this solved quickly. Good luck!