My panther chameleon has dark color over last 2 weeks

[litva]

Hi all, my adult panther chameleon has brown color over 2 weeks. When he is sleeping he is light green with red stripes. He is in 120x55x55cm screen cage, average temperature is 26C and on basking spot 32C. He eats a lot of crickets and drinks a lot. He gets calcium with every load and once a week vitamines. I am misting once or twice a day heavily. Humidity 55%. I tried to buy new bulbs for him week ago but still issue persists. What could be the cause?

I tried to put around cage plastic foil to increase temperature.. He has been showing awesome colors and now it is totally different story. I building for him new cage 135x60x60 with glass walls since here in Europe is quite cold weather.

Thank you very much

Add first photo: I know it is with filter, but he pretty much showed colors like this on daily basis.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male, panther chameleon
• Handling - Max once a week
• Feeding - Mainly crickets, 15 a day with tons of calcium, once a week vitamines
• Supplements - Exxoterra, reptivite
• Watering - Spraying from bottle, 1-2 a day
• Fecal Description - Never tested, firm white and somehow firm the rest, no parasites or something found
• History - From pet store, wasnt in good shape I guess, was skinny

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen cage 120x55x55cm
• Lighting - Reptile UVB100 and Exxo terra SUN GLO 50w
• Temperature - 26C overall and under basking spot 32C
• Humidity - 55%, misting
• Plants - Not yet
• Placement - It is in living room, I have 2 cats either but I wasnt problem in past. It is under roof so I might be cold for him IDK. But no noise from street.
• Location - Czech republic, Europe

 

[litva]

Do you think he could be cold? I am trying to speed up the process of building new terra but it takes time. My main concern is.. is it possible that this will solve the issue?

 

[kinyonga]

Your photos won't load for me.
Is the cage in an area where it would get a draft?
Is he dark when the cats aren't in the room?
Does he sleep during the day?

Just wanted to mention that you only need to use the vitamins once every two weeks.

 

[litva]

Your photos won't load for me.
Is the cage in an area where it would get a draft?
Is he dark when the cats aren't in the room?
Does he sleep during the day?

Just wanted to mention that you only need to use the vitamins once every two weeks.

Right now I think that that
Thanks, there are his images http://imgur.com/a/XsKsk and http://imgur.com/a/Nqz9b
Yes he is dark even if cats are / not present. He doesn't not sleep during the day and he is quite active, he is hunting, drinking and moving on branches actively.

OK, I will give him only once every two weeks.

 

[mattmak_09]

What are you using for Calcium?

 

[litva]

I am using Exo Terra Calcium + D3.

 

[mattmak_09]

I am using Exo Terra Calcium + D3.

how often are u sprinkling his food? and the concentration ?

 

[litva]

how often are u sprinkling his food? and the concentration ?

Every load he gets he receives crickets covered with this one, concentration is pretty high. I going to buy another calcium after work since I just found out that this one is probably bad for him.

 

[mattmak_09]

Every load he gets he receives crickets covered with this one, concentration is pretty high. I going to buy another calcium after work since I just found out that this one is probably bad for him.

With all the information you provided, vitamin D3 toxicity is my top differential. Vit D as you may know is lipid soluble (it hangs around in fat) and is used up as needed. Excessive amounts are stored in the liver and are toxic when there is too much. Stop using the one you have now.

As long as you have UVB provided, he is synthesizing his own D3, provided you also have plain Ca provided. We are only sprinkling D3 occasionally to supplement in case he isn't making enough (UVB output reducing). The market has a ton of products. Calcium only and calcium with D3 various concentrations. Again, you typically don't a lot of D3 supplementation if adequate UVB is provided, 2-3x should suffice.

Its really great that cham are such visual animals. I did the same thing, sprinkling Ca + D3 everyday, till one day i was like "why he aint pretty any more". Then when I went to a Herp show and I got my answer. This was many years ago.
If this continues he will likely die soon from liver failure but stopping now should be fine. My guy lived 6.5 with me, which to my understanding, is a long life for a chameleon.

Unless he has another disease process, Id rule Vit D3 toxicosis out first by just cutting back. You are likely good for a 2w minimum without needing to supplement any D3- maybe even 3, because it is all stored.

If things don't perk up, ask again. Hopefully its what I suspect it to be. Keep me posted.
Matt

 

[kinyonga]

I've never heard of a chameleon turning dark from too much D3.
Dark coloration can be from being too cool or stress, etc.

D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues. We recommend dusting twice a month lightly with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder to ensure the chameleon gets some but leaving it to produce the rest of the D3 from its UVB exposure.
So to recap...dust with a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings..use a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder twice a month and a vitamin powder with a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A. If the chameleon needs some prEformed vitamin A you can give it separately so it won't be overdosed.

It's important to feed/gutload the insects well too. I use a wide assortment of greens and veggies such as dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, collards, carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, etc and a bit of fruit such as Apple, pear, berries, melon.

Can he see himself in a mirror?

 

[mattmak_09]

I've never heard of a chameleon turning dark from too much D3.
Dark coloration can be from being too cool or stress, etc.

D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues. We recommend dusting twice a month lightly with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder to ensure the chameleon gets some but leaving it to produce the rest of the D3 from its UVB exposure.
So to recap...dust with a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings..use a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder twice a month and a vitamin powder with a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A. If the chameleon needs some prEformed vitamin A you can give it separately so it won't be overdosed.

It's important to feed/gutload the insects well too. I use a wide assortment of greens and veggies such as dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, collards, carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, etc and a bit of fruit such as Apple, pear, berries, melon.

Can he see himself in a mirror?

what do you think is going on Kinyonga? Interested to hear your thoughts =D

 

[litva]

With all the information you provided, vitamin D3 toxicity is my top differential. Vit D as you may know is lipid soluble (it hangs around in fat) and is used up as needed. Excessive amounts are stored in the liver and are toxic when there is too much. Stop using the one you have now.

As long as you have UVB provided, he is synthesizing his own D3, provided you also have plain Ca provided. We are only sprinkling D3 occasionally to supplement in case he isn't making enough (UVB output reducing). The market has a ton of products. Calcium only and calcium with D3 various concentrations. Again, you typically don't a lot of D3 supplementation if adequate UVB is provided, 2-3x should suffice.

Its really great that cham are such visual animals. I did the same thing, sprinkling Ca + D3 everyday, till one day i was like "why he aint pretty any more". Then when I went to a Herp show and I got my answer. This was many years ago.
If this continues he will likely die soon from liver failure but stopping now should be fine. My guy lived 6.5 with me, which to my understanding, is a long life for a chameleon.

Unless he has another disease process, Id rule Vit D3 toxicosis out first by just cutting back. You are likely good for a 2w minimum without needing to supplement any D3- maybe even 3, because it is all stored.

If things don't perk up, ask again. Hopefully its what I suspect it to be. Keep me posted.
Matt

Thank you for your input, I have ordered calcium without D3 and tomorrow my guy with get it with insects.

 

[litva]

I've never heard of a chameleon turning dark from too much D3.
Dark coloration can be from being too cool or stress, etc.

D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues. We recommend dusting twice a month lightly with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder to ensure the chameleon gets some but leaving it to produce the rest of the D3 from its UVB exposure.
So to recap...dust with a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings..use a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder twice a month and a vitamin powder with a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A. If the chameleon needs some prEformed vitamin A you can give it separately so it won't be overdosed.

It's important to feed/gutload the insects well too. I use a wide assortment of greens and veggies such as dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, collards, carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, etc and a bit of fruit such as Apple, pear, berries, melon.

Can he see himself in a mirror?

I am gutloading insects too, I am giving them carrots and sweet potatos and sometimes they get apple. They have lots of food.

I tried few moments ago, but he was just staring on it he was trying to show some colors as before this happened but I saw only patterns without proper change but he was not black but rather light green with some light red patterns.
PS: was it to simulate second chameleon right?

 

[kinyonga]

Mattmak_09...I'm working on an answer!

I asked about whether he could see a mirror because I thought if he could see it from where he's sitting it might be stressing him out.

 

[mattmak_09]

I've only had 1 cham so my experience is limited, but whenever my guy saw himself in a mirror he flipped and flashed colours. He did eventually never cared seeing his reflection if we passed a mirror. Id imagine if he saw his reflection, remaining dull wouldn't be it, at least neutral. Mood drives colour change and seems like he has no colours.

You have nothing to lose cutting back the D3 at this point because it was still inappropriate offered. Your husbandry seems on point unless someone else sees a flaw. To me the supplementation is the issue.
Interested to hear other headways.

 

[litva]

Thank you for your reply, sadly I dont have option to show him female chameleon to try flashing colours. I bought him better heat bulb and it seems that it is helping quite significantly with temperature in his cage. He had shown some progress regarding colouring (I believe) since I posted this. For example this is from today: http://imgur.com/a/Z2byj In last two weeks I didnt see him that green during the day, only in specific moments.

 

[mattmak_09]

sounds sill but what season is it now where you are? Was he basking before?

 

[litva]

It was winter last months and now it is spring. Outside temperatures are 8-10C right now. Yes he was basking before, it was my first idea to buy new basking bulb for him. (he had 40W now he has 60W)

 

[mattmak_09]

well if he's looking better already thats great
Def reconsider the dusting tho, it was a little much before.
Keep me posted

 

[litva]

Sure, that is great! I will have new calcium without D3 today in my home! Thanks for the replies and definitely I will keep you posted!