My husband thinks our cham (Fred) may DIE!!!

[Fred]

Okay so Fred has been doing great compared to how he was when we got him, and is still "ACTING" (compensating) fine, BUT.. we wanted him to be checked out by a vet anyway even though he hasn't been displaying ANY problems. So we made an appt in Orlando with a recommened Herp Vet (Ivan Alfonso) (sched on Summoners BDAY) but due to me being a scardy cat and not wanting to go that far and to THAT big city (I am a small town country girl, the less red lights and traffic the better!!) my husband had something very important come up at work that he could not reschedule, so we RS the vet appt. Well I started worrying that the day of his appt, he wouldn't have any good poop for us to collect (It is very hard to find in his cage because it is very dense with many live plants, it usually hits two-three leaves on the way down with peices on each leaf!!) So this morning I started misting his cage and there it was...a perfect poo, nicley on a leaf...so I decided I've read on here many times any vet can do the fecal, so I scooped it up, bagged it and started calling LOCAL vets, after MANY phone calls, one (out of about 15 in our county) said Yes, they have a vet that does "exotics" and that a fecal is pretty much a fecal..So BINGO!!! I was on my way...Well to make this really long story shorter, the fecal came back with "some" pinworms And "a SEVERE amount of Coccidia" GREAT!!!! They recommended two meds to be taken at the same time (which I think I read somewhere it is better to do treatments one at a time, I questioned this and they said NO, same time) For pinworms Panacur, and for Coccidia Albon 5%. I think we should still take him to the specialist to make sure meds and dosages are correct and to have blood work done (if the vet thinks it is in order) I read somewhere also that u have to bleach the cage many times during treatment, dispose of all plants, and anything else U can't boil to dis infect, but my husband says he read it is FATAL in babies and JUVINILES, we don't know how old Fred is but I would think he is a juvinile (6 months or so?) So I need some imput!! Thanks!! I swear if it wasn't for bad luck we'd have no luck at all!! We have been through so much with Fred!!!

 

[sandrachameleon]

I feel for you. I just found out one of mine has pinworms too. Panacur is indeed the medicine for that. Apparently this isnt an uncommon thing and the Panacur will work. Reptaid may also work. I hear Coccidia is harder to deal with. I'd be inclined to toss everything in the cage, clean the cage extra well and start fresh. Best of luck!

S

 

[kinyonga]

Don't give up on him yet. Both pinworms and coccidia are treatable.
Make sure you water him well though.

 

[dodolah]

Don't panic. You still have hope.

Pin worms is not a big deal.
Coccidia can be treated now.
Only annoying part about it is the fact that coccidia is extremely persistent.
so, reinfection can happened often.

This is purely my experience (and some other members), we have been experiencing severe side effects with Albon where our chameleon has stopped eating altogether for about 3- 4 weeks.

Some other people has been experiencing good things with Albon.

Personally, I am a bit biased on Albon.
What Albon do is halting the reproduction of coccidia.
But, I have experiencing wonderful result with Ponazuril.
Ponazuril has the direct effect of killing the nasty buggers.

Perhaps, ask Dr. Ivan Alfonso about possibilities of using the ponazuril instead of Albon and see if he agrees or disagrees.
Of course, I would trust Dr. Ivan's judgment.

Just as a suggestion

 

[Fred]

Don't panic. You still have hope.

Pin worms is not a big deal.
Coccidia can be treated now.
Only annoying part about it is the fact that coccidia is extremely persistent.
so, reinfection can happened often.

This is purely my experience (and some other members), we have been experiencing severe side effects with Albon where our chameleon has stopped eating altogether for about 3- 4 weeks.

Some other people has been experiencing good things with Albon.

Personally, I am a bit biased on Albon.
What Albon do is halting the reproduction of coccidia.
But, I have experiencing wonderful result with Ponazuril.
Ponazuril has the direct effect of killing the nasty buggers.

Perhaps, ask Dr. Ivan Alfonso about possibilities of using the ponazuril instead of Albon and see if he agrees or disagrees.
Of course, I would trust Dr. Ivan's judgment.

Just as a suggestion

THANK U this is what I was looking for!!! I had read that ONE of the meds used to treat Chams with had some really nasty side effects and there was another option! I know the "exotics" vet was already gone for the day when I arrived with the fecal and I could hear them dicussing what to do, they even came out and told me sorry it was taking so long, but many of them had not seen a cham fecal and they were Learning offof it, then when they FINALLY came out to give me the readings they said that it would be a little while longer while they looked up the treatment, they said it was two different meds and they needed to make sure they could be taken together, then when I asked if it was the only medicine available she said I don't know, its what the book recommended!!! HOW OLD IS THE BOOK!!!??? So I think I would feel better seeing Dr.Ivan Alfonso and getting his recommendations!! My biggest worry is administering the meds!! I know I could not make him open, and if he did I would worry about choking, I read where u inject the crickets(thats all he will eat) buy he doesn't eat on any real sched, we provide the food at the same time everyday but he eats it sometimes 20 mins later and other times 2-4 hrs later, we never know!! I guess if we witheld for a few days he would probably be ready to gobble when we are!1LOL!!

 

[dodolah]

Since you work in dental practice, you should have syringe.
Ponazuril is a big molecule therefore the normal 21 gauge will not work.
You need at least 18 gauge and below.
Get the right dosage per vet recommendation, inject it deep into hornworms/ silkworms/ or dubia.

Just make sure that he is hungry; so, he will eat the insect right away.
Because, after that injection, the insect won't survive for long.

imho, that is the best and natural way to administer the medicine without stress from force feeding.

THANK U this is what I was looking for!!! I had read that ONE of the meds used to treat Chams with had some really nasty side effects and there was another option! I know the "exotics" vet was already gone for the day when I arrived with the fecal and I could hear them dicussing what to do, they even came out and told me sorry it was taking so long, but many of them had not seen a cham fecal and they were Learning offof it, then when they FINALLY came out to give me the readings they said that it would be a little while longer while they looked up the treatment, they said it was two different meds and they needed to make sure they could be taken together, then when I asked if it was the only medicine available she said I don't know, its what the book recommended!!! HOW OLD IS THE BOOK!!!??? So I think I would feel better seeing Dr.Ivan Alfonso and getting his recommendations!! My biggest worry is administering the meds!! I know I could not make him open, and if he did I would worry about choking, I read where u inject the crickets(thats all he will eat) buy he doesn't eat on any real sched, we provide the food at the same time everyday but he eats it sometimes 20 mins later and other times 2-4 hrs later, we never know!! I guess if we witheld for a few days he would probably be ready to gobble when we are!1LOL!!

 

[Fred]

Since you work in dental practice, you should have syringe.
Ponazuril is a big molecule therefore the normal 21 gauge will not work.
You need at least 18 gauge and below.
Get the right dosage per vet recommendation, inject it deep into hornworms/ silkworms/ or dubia.

Just make sure that he is hungry; so, he will eat the insect right away.
Because, after that injection, the insect won't survive for long.

imho, that is the best and natural way to administer the medicine without stress from force feeding.

BUT.. he will only eat crickets, I have about $100 worth of everything else ( i mean EVERYTHING) I have seen on this site and he is not interested at all!!!

 

[dodolah]

meanwhile try mixing hornwoms in the cup.
he probably just not used to it.
Once he taste it, i bet he will love it.
I think crickets can be injected as well; just harder.

BUT.. he will only eat crickets, I have about $100 worth of everything else ( i mean EVERYTHING) I have seen on this site and he is not interested at all!!!

 

[Fred]

I will try, that is all he had ever been fed at the petstore! He puffed up at a silkie and superworm!! LOL! I hope he picks up a taste for them before they all die!!

 

[summoner12]

I am sorry to hear Fred!

Try offering him just worms on day... leave a couple of silks or HWs in the cage... If he isn't getting his normal crickets he'll get hungry enough to eat the worms. Follow what Frans (dodolah) is saying. This has worked well for locals in our area.

 

[Fred]

I am sorry to hear Fred!

Try offering him just worms on day... leave a couple of silks or HWs in the cage... If he isn't getting his normal crickets he'll get hungry enough to eat the worms. Follow what Frans (dodolah) is saying. This has worked well for locals in our area.

Well at least I didn't crash ur B-Day!! Guess the only thing we'll be buying at the repltile show is a new set-up!! : ( Thanks everybody for your help, we will keep u posted!!

 

[summoner12]

Well at least I didn't crash ur B-Day!! Guess the only thing we'll be buying at the repltile show is a new set-up!! : ( Thanks everybody for your help, we will keep u posted!!

you don't HAVE to buy a whole new setup....

Search around about cleaning up parasite ridden cages. From our last couple of meetings Dave Weldon was showing us a higher concentration of hydrogen peroxide you can buy from a hair salon supply store. I think store brand for human use on cuts and wounds is 3%... Hair salons use a higher level for coloring hair. The higher concentration will kill cocidia faster, meaning you don't need to soak a cage or vines ect. as long. The stuff is really cheap at a salon supply. Maybe Dave can chime in and give some more tips on cleaning up a cocidia ridden enclosure.

The trick is getting everything clean that might have cocidia on it... Start wearing latex gloves when handling Fred and related items. wash the gloves between touching different items. Handle his fecal matter with a glove and don't touch ANYTHING and toss the glove and poop at the same time. You need to treat Fred like hes got some killer virus.... in other words.. become OCD about what you touch. and clean up his plant and cage bottom after he poops. get ready to have a cham cage cleaner than a hospital

 

[dodolah]

one more thing, if the injecting thing does not work, then you can administer the med via mouth directly.
What you can do is slowly take her out of the cage.

Use a towel and gently wrap her like a burrito.
and fold open the towel area where her head is.
So, essentially, only her head shows while her body is gently wrapped by the towel.

With one hand, massage her gular area (not too hard).
So far, I have never seen chameleons that do not react by opening their mouth when this is done to them.
Then, inject the medicine via syringe (with no needles) gently.

Let her swallow the medicine and you're done!
she'll hate this method and probably get really antsy whenever she saw a towel. So, try the injecting med in feeder method first.

 

[dodolah]

you don't HAVE to buy a whole new setup....

Search around about cleaning up parasite ridden cages. From our last couple of meetings Dave Weldon was showing us a higher concentration of hydrogen peroxide you can buy from a hair salon supply store. I think store brand for human use on cuts and wounds is 3%... Hair salons use a higher level for coloring hair. The higher concentration will kill cocidia faster, meaning you don't need to soak a cage or vines ect. as long. The stuff is really cheap at a salon supply. Maybe Dave can chime in and give some more tips on cleaning up a cocidia ridden enclosure.

The trick is getting everything clean that might have cocidia on it... Start wearing latex gloves when handling Fred and related items. wash the gloves between touching different items. Handle his fecal matter with a glove and don't touch ANYTHING and toss the glove and poop at the same time. You need to treat Fred like hes got some killer virus.... in other words.. become OCD about what you touch. and clean up his plant and cage bottom after he poops. get ready to have a cham cage cleaner than a hospital

lol or simply just toss the plants and the vines.

I hope Dave can chime in as well.. I have not hear about hydrogen peroxide able to kill coccidia in cyst form.
i still use the old cage. But, i blast the cage with hot steam using steam cleaner.

 

[summoner12]

lol or simply just toss the plants and the vines.

I hope Dave can chime in as well.. I have not hear about hydrogen peroxide able to kill coccidia in cyst form.
i still use the old cage. But, i blast the cage with hot steam using steam cleaner.

I emailed dave.

Yeah, dumping the vines and plants would be a good idea. I remember at the meeting we were talking about how hydrogen peroxide would effect plant leafs... No one had tried it yet.. Fred, maybe you could give it a whirl and let us know?

 

[Fred]

What about bleach? Like for the towells I used in his cage to soak up dirty dripper H2o etc? And while he's going thru tx should we place him in a smaller enclosure with no real plants until tx complete? ( currently he's in a much larger cage than necessary for a flap necked) do u think maybe he was WC? Petstores u never know!! Then again the Glass Aquarium he lived in for the first 4 months or so at the petshop his cage was NEVER cleaned and had H2O 1 inch deep above the 4 inches of pooh and dirty dripper sprayer H2O soaked substrate!! EEWWWW, I should have seen the sign there!!! But I would have still rescued him, but at least I would have known I was on a rescue mission and could have been more prepared!! The reason I ask was because they made it a point to say he had pin worms BUT he was LOADED with coccidia, they were in awh at how many!

 

[Fred]

hey I'm up for any challenge, what will it hurt if the plants are trash otherwise anyways? I have outside cats so I wouldn't wanna risk planting them outside!! I have one plant that has never been in his enclosure, and he has never poohed on it, it's the shower tree, we usually leave it in the shower of the spare bathroom (except to get it sunshine)(which at a low of 20 F here in Fl the last couple of days I've been on under the covers in the bed strike : } Is it okay?

 

[dodolah]

What about bleach? Like for the towells I used in his cage to soak up dirty dripper H2o etc? And while he's going thru tx should we place him in a smaller enclosure with no real plants until tx complete? ( currently he's in a much larger cage than necessary for a flap necked) do u think maybe he was WC? Petstores u never know!!

Not surprising...
Actually, a CB flapneck is not common. Most are WC..
Last time i see somebody sell CB flap is flchams. and b4, I am about to grab it somebody already buy one.

but, pinworms and coccidia is also quite common here, you know.
All my chams are CB. and 1 guy got coccidia and pinworms; but, not severe.
I will suggest stripping the cage furniture to bare necessity.
you can certainly move him to a smaller cage if what you have now is too big for him anyway.
Just maintain the humidity well for now.

Besides parasites in the stool, has he been eating and acting well?

 

[Fred]

I would say he's never quite had the appetite I hear people talk about on here, but then again he is smaller than panthers and such, he usually eats around 5-6 crickets a day- give r take, he's been acting good, and we finally got the orange to go away, his color has been great, normal routines for him but we have only had him since jusy before christmas and he was in badddd shape then, they never dusted his food with anything, or took him outside and u read about his living conditions before we bought him

 

[Fred]

We also just had our first funny with him the other day.. we have never seen him puff up, head bob, or ANYTHING before, just get a few black spots from time to time, (mistings, etc) Anyways, I changed his dripper to a bigger one that would hold more H2O, his old one had a clear tube he would put his mouth right on, when we changed it he was sunning nearby on a branch when we threaded the new BLACK and much longer (we hadn't cut it to desired length yet) and I guess to him it looked like a black snake dropping in on him because he started dancing on his hind legs, all puffed out, swaying side to side at it!!! It was CRAZY!!