My first attempt at breeding F.pardalis.

HiddenHerps

Member
Our lovely Queen B laid her first clutch today and boy am I relieved! She was bred to Hulk on October 18th and so when she didn't lay last weekend I started to worry but she was drinking, eating well and passing healthy stools so I watched and waited...giving her lots of privacy. I started reading over any info I could find and was advised to #1 very gently feel her abdomen for eggs assessing to see if there was any in a position to obstruct the cloaca. I felt very little round balls all high up and not in the vent area... #2 to change her lay bin to a black 2 gallon flower pot instead of the clear sterilite bin I had and #3 gestation can go as long as 6 weeks so keep feeding her all she'd take of food gut loaded and dusted with calcium... I did this but I was planning a trip to the vet if she hadn't laid by next weekend or changed her behavior....then Thursday she started going down to the bottom half of the cage ...Friday...nothing...basking all day...then again Saturday back down... I thought I was gonna die of stress myself! Until yesterday morning when she was not on her favorite perch or even visible when I went in to feed the boys and the frogs... I fed quickly and didn't go in again until evening when I peeked thru an outside window and saw a very dirty lizard chilling in her basking spot... I went in and saw 1 egg on the surface of the dirt and a second very small unfertilized egg on the cage floor. The dirt was otherwise smooth as silk... I offered her food and she chowed down! I am so ecstatic that she's gonna be ok and beside myself with excitement to dig, count and start incubating her eggs! I shared this for others to read and maybe not freak out if any of this applies to them! And also to thank those that posted the information that helped me Stay Calm and Keep Herping!
 

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ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Our lovely Queen B laid her first clutch today and boy am I relieved! She was bred to Hulk on October 18th and so when she didn't lay last weekend I started to worry but she was drinking, eating well and passing healthy stools so I watched and waited...giving her lots of privacy. I started reading over any info I could find and was advised to #1 very gently feel her abdomen for eggs assessing to see if there was any in a position to obstruct the cloaca. I felt very little round balls all high up and not in the vent area... #2 to change her lay bin to a black 2 gallon flower pot instead of the clear sterilite bin I had and #3 gestation can go as long as 6 weeks so keep feeding her all she'd take of food gut loaded and dusted with calcium... I did this but I was planning a trip to the vet if she hadn't laid by next weekend or changed her behavior....then Thursday she started going down to the bottom half of the cage ...Friday...nothing...basking all day...then again Saturday back down... I thought I was gonna die of stress myself! Until yesterday morning when she was not on her favorite perch or even visible when I went in to feed the boys and the frogs... I fed quickly and didn't go in again until evening when I peeked thru an outside window and saw a very dirty lizard chilling in her basking spot... I went in and saw 1 egg on the surface of the dirt and a second very small unfertilized egg on the cage floor. The dirt was otherwise smooth as silk... I offered her food and she chowed down! I am so ecstatic that she's gonna be ok and beside myself with excitement to dig, count and start incubating her eggs! I shared this for others to read and maybe not freak out if any of this applies to them! And also to thank those that posted the information that helped me Stay Calm and Keep Herping!
So she only laid two eggs? It concerns me that you started to research after you bred her
 

HiddenHerps

Member
So she only laid two eggs? It concerns me that you started to research after you bred her
Wow...way to jump to conclusions... I researched keeping and breeding for several months before I got my first male and I highlighted the NEW things I'd learned from this forum that I did not find in the 2 books and multiple articles before that. You only half read my post..which in your defense was long...but I clearly stated at the end that I would be taking the eggs out this morning...it was late when she finished, almost lights out... and I didn't want to disturb their light cycle by messing with eggs that would be fine till morning....
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Wow...way to jump to conclusions... I researched keeping and breeding for several months before I got my first male and I highlighted the NEW things I'd learned from this forum that I did not find in the 2 books and multiple articles before that. You only half read my post..which in your defense was long...but I clearly stated at the end that I would be taking the eggs out this morning...it was late when she finished, almost lights out... and I didn't want to disturb their light cycle by messing with eggs that would be fine till morning....
It concerned me that you didn’t do research on stuff that could go wrong before breeding her, like you mentioned. I skimmed over the part of you taking out the eggs, and for that, I’m sorry, but you said the dirt wasn’t disturbed.
She is 10 months old and this is her first fertilized clutch.
You shouldn’t breed a female until she’s at least a year old, it’s not healthy for the cham otherwise
 

HiddenHerps

Member
You are being really negative and I don't feel the need to justify myself to you any further. You seem to want to find fault with me and she's doing great! The breeder with over 40 years experience that I got her from told me what to do and I did it...all is well...So much for enjoying my first post....Have a nice day
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
You are being really negative and I don't feel the need to justify myself to you any further. You seem to want to find fault with me and she's doing great! The breeder with over 40 years experience that I got her from told me what to do and I did it...all is well...So much for enjoying my first post....Have a nice day
I’m not trying to be negative, but some things stood out to me. I’m not trying to fault you, if you took it that way, I apologize. The photo attached and highlighted is off the panther cham care sheet here, explaining why you shouldn’t breed until a cham is at least one year old.
 

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HiddenHerps

Member
I've read it and I found it very informative! However I followed her breeders advice that made even more since to me. I know what the "rules" are but they are really just educated opinions. He told me many people will tell you not to breed until they're a full year and I actually questioned him about that... and he replied that Opinions aren't facts... And so I took his opinion over someone I'd never met. I'd say he knows what he's talking about he works with the rarist chameleons in the world.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
I've read it and I found it very informative! However I followed her breeders advice that made even more since to me. I know what the "rules" are but they are really just educated opinions. He told me many people will tell you not to breed until they're a full year and I actually questioned him about that... and he replied that Opinions aren't facts... And so I took his opinion over someone I'd never met. I'd say he knows what he's talking about he works with the rarist chameleons in the world.
Wouldn’t you rather ere on the side of caution and health than take one guy’s opinion? Who knows if he’s updated his husbandry practices in the last 40 years to research that is current? Just because he has money and means to work with chameleons doesn’t mean you should take him at face value, do deeper research and you’ll find that while it might work, breeding at an early age isn’t the healthiest option for the overall health of your cham.
 

HiddenHerps

Member
I'm not arguing with you. This keeps decending into an argumentative exchange. I'm not interested in continuing it. Thank you for your thoughts and opinions although I never sought advice nor did I state an issue...it was a narrative of my experience and encouraging words for new keepers and breeders that was the only intended purpose.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm not arguing with you. This keeps decending into an argumentative exchange. I'm not interested in continuing it. Thank you for your thoughts and opinions although I never sought advice nor did I state an issue...it was a narrative of my experience and encouraging words for new keepers and breeders that was the only intended purpose.
I was just trying to make sure you have the right information so your cham and her babies can be the healthiest as possible. Obviously I’ve rubbed you the wrong way, and I’m sorry for that
 

HiddenHerps

Member
So I'd like to update this post a bit because something unexpected happened that I'd like to share... So I said she'd laid and she did. 8 eggs and since she's younger that could have been all she laid but I was not sure... she was still restless. Then on the 27th 2 days after the first time I found an egg next to her perch... I knew that was a good sign she still had more. I put her into a 5 gallon bucket with her lights suspended above, a pothos and 8 inches of play sand/organic soil mix. I left her alone but did sent up a survalence camera to watch and make sure she'd finished. She dug most of the day yesterday and a bit more today. Finally she stopped and started trying to exit the bucket. I moved her back into her cage and felt that she had nothing left. Something I hadn't done after she'd laid last time. A mistake that I will not make again...but my reasoning was not to stress her. After getting her back into her cage and feeding her I checked the bucket....and found a clutch of 20 more! I'm so glad that it turned out well but I still don't know WHY it happened? Anyone have thoughts?
 

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HiddenHerps

Member
Maybe she was digging a test tunnel and couldn’t hold some in? IDK
I know right! But she covered them up and everything...it was weird. That could have been disastrous! Just goes to show you must get to know your animal well and always be vigilant because anything can go wrong.
 

cloverthechameleon

Avid Member
She must of got spooked. Youre very lucky she went back and laid for a second time, and that she did not become egg bound. Feed and hydrate her well, lots of calcium, privacy and rest.
 

HiddenHerps

Member
She must of got spooked. Youre very lucky she went back and laid for a second time, and that she did not become egg bound. Feed and hydrate her well, lots of calcium, privacy and rest.
Maybe so... I agree but if the bucket didn't work we were going to the vet today. I'm not gonna let any animal of mine suffer if it's within my power to help.
 
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