Mouth injury/rot???

[Tombegood]

I am concerned with a mouth injury on my panther. He has had this now for a while. It looks much better than it did a month ago, but after seeing a discussion on here about mouth rot I took a closer look today and snapped a few pictures.I don't like how the gum line has a green look to it as the other side of his mouth is nice and white. Any comments would be appreciated. I have also contacted a vet that deals with exotic pets and will probably be bringing him over there in a few days.
Here are a few photos...

 

[LindsayG]

Wow that hole on the side of his mouth doesn't look very good. It looks pretty painful. I am no expert but something is definitely wrong. You should have him seen by a vet as soon as you can. I hope he gets better soon!

 

[Carlton]

Wow that hole on the side of his mouth doesn't look very good. It looks pretty painful. I am no expert but something is definitely wrong. You should have him seen by a vet as soon as you can. I hope he gets better soon!

The camera angle may be deceiving. Just to clarify, the area the OP is concerned about is on the upper left jawline (as we are looking at the pics) right? The color is a little washed out so its hard to see. I agree that the jawline is a different color and the lip seems like it has peeled back, but hard to tell if there is an active infection going on. I think a vet check is a good idea. How have you been treating this? Do you have pics of it before? Is your cham eating and drinking? That is a good judge of pain.

 

[MissLissa]

Mmmmm I disagree a little with Carlton- this looks like the mouth rot we'd see in bearded dragons etc at the clinic. Carlton has more experience with chams than I do, though, so I wouldn't argue very hard

Is your cham on antibiotics? Either way, a vet visit and a culture&sensitivity is a good idea, even if it's just to rule out an infection.

Is the area of the original injury the section under his right eye (on the left in the photos) or is that a more recent development?

 

[Tombegood]

The original injury is under his right side eye (to the left in these photo's). That is why the lip is peeled back. This injury suddenly appeared a few months ago and scabbed over much like a cut would on one's own skin. The scab disappeared and it looked much better to me. Then the other day I noticed the discoloration when he opened his mouth wide. It was obvious that there was something else going on beside the tear in his skin, which is having a tough time healing. I brought him to the vet today and they prescribed Baytril Enrofloxacin 10mg/ml oral susp (0.2cc QD).

I am also less than impressed with the vet I brought him to. Although they claim to be, they did not seem all that knowledgeable with reptiles and how to handle them. I wont be using them for a followup, as they wish to see him again in two weeks. I will be doing a little research on vets in my area and find a different one for this.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the green discoloration in the jaw line goes away. As far as the tear in his skin goes, I'm assuming that time will take care of that.

He is acting completely normal otherwise, eating, drinking, active in his environment and continues to grow/gain weight.

Would it be a good idea to use something on the tear to help the healing process? The vet didn't seem overly concerned with this...(again, not impressed).

Here is a picture with his mouth closed.

 

[Carlton]

Mmmmm I disagree a little with Carlton- this looks like the mouth rot we'd see in bearded dragons etc at the clinic. Carlton has more experience with chams than I do, though, so I wouldn't argue very hard

Is your cham on antibiotics? Either way, a vet visit and a culture&sensitivity is a good idea, even if it's just to rule out an infection.

Is the area of the original injury the section under his right eye (on the left in the photos) or is that a more recent development?

Well, I haven't seen "mouth rot" in panthers so not sure about the coloration of it in that species. After looking at the pics again I think you are right MissLissa. Definitely needs a vet.

 

[Carlton]

The original injury is under his right side eye (to the left in these photo's). That is why the lip is peeled back. This injury suddenly appeared a few months ago and scabbed over much like a cut would on one's own skin. The scab disappeared and it looked much better to me. Then the other day I noticed the discoloration when he opened his mouth wide. It was obvious that there was something else going on beside the tear in his skin, which is having a tough time healing. I brought him to the vet today and they prescribed Baytril Enrofloxacin 10mg/ml oral susp (0.2cc QD).

I am also less than impressed with the vet I brought him to. Although they claim to be, they did not seem all that knowledgeable with reptiles and how to handle them. I wont be using them for a followup, as they wish to see him again in two weeks. I will be doing a little research on vets in my area and find a different one for this.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the green discoloration in the jaw line goes away. As far as the tear in his skin goes, I'm assuming that time will take care of that.

He is acting completely normal otherwise, eating, drinking, active in his environment and continues to grow/gain weight.

Would it be a good idea to use something on the tear to help the healing process? The vet didn't seem overly concerned with this...(again, not impressed).

Here is a picture with his mouth closed.

IMHO the tear itself looks like its healing, just malformed. It doesn't look inflamed but more like scarring over. If there isn't an open surface wound there may not be much you can do to speed up healing. Chams do every thing slowly. Maybe improving his overall nutrition would help.

An important fact is that he's eating and drinking. Chams with active mouth infections are in pain and don't eat much if at all. What we don't know is if there is active infection going on in the jaw below the gum surface. Again, I'd suspect if it was he would be in pain unless the bone had died, and it doesn't look like that. I would think he would have lost teeth and the jaw would have broken. I haven't had to deal with bone infections so just don't know. Maybe one of our forum vets will weigh in on this?

Yep, prescribing Baytril is a typical less-experienced vet recommendation.

 

[Tombegood]

IMHO the tear itself looks like its healing, just malformed. It doesn't look inflamed but more like scarring over. If there isn't an open surface wound there may not be much you can do to speed up healing. Chams do every thing slowly. Maybe improving his overall nutrition would help.

An important fact is that he's eating and drinking. Chams with active mouth infections are in pain and don't eat much if at all. What we don't know is if there is active infection going on in the jaw below the gum surface. Again, I'd suspect if it was he would be in pain unless the bone had died, and it doesn't look like that. I would think he would have lost teeth and the jaw would have broken. I haven't had to deal with bone infections so just don't know. Maybe one of our forum vets will weigh in on this?

Yep, prescribing Baytril is a typical less-experienced vet recommendation.

Thanks Carlton, I have found another vet that I will follow up with in a few weeks. Nothing worse than bringing your animal to someone you are not comfortable with. It was kind of a red flag when they couldn't figure out how to open his mouth and I had to do it for them. One quick question, do you feel I should wait these two weeks and see how the medication works, or should I get him into the other vet sooner? I'm assuming that I would see some sort of change after a week of this medication. So if I don't, maybe get him in sooner...

I have also read that Baytril is hard on the kidneys...I was thinking of giving him a few cc's of water with the syringe while his mouth is open for the medication...

 

[Carlton]

Thanks Carlton, I have found another vet that I will follow up with in a few weeks. Nothing worse than bringing your animal to someone you are not comfortable with. It was kind of a red flag when they couldn't figure out how to open his mouth and I had to do it for them. One quick question, do you feel I should wait these two weeks and see how the medication works, or should I get him into the other vet sooner? I'm assuming that I would see some sort of change after a week of this medication. So if I don't, maybe get him in sooner...

My personal gut feeling is to go to the other vet before treating with anything new. As you said, he's acting normally, eating and drinking. There may not be much to treat at this point. There's no sense giving him a kidney-toxic med that may not do anything. I'd think it would be better to have the more experienced vet examine the lip, gum, and the teeth, take samples from any spot that looks active, do a sensitivity test before prescribing a more focused med at that time. He could check to see if the teeth are just stained, or damaged or need to be removed too.

 

[Tombegood]

My personal gut feeling is to go to the other vet before treating with anything new. As you said, he's acting normally, eating and drinking. There may not be much to treat at this point. There's no sense giving him a kidney-toxic med that may not do anything. I'd think it would be better to have the more experienced vet examine the lip, gum, and the teeth, take samples from any spot that looks active, do a sensitivity test before prescribing a more focused med at that time. He could check to see if the teeth are just stained, or damaged or need to be removed too.

Okay, I will schedule an appointment. Thanks so much for your input!

 

[Tombegood]

Okay, I will schedule an appointment. Thanks so much for your input!

He was seen yesterday by another vet. He cleaned out the green gunk up in his jaw. Two meds were prescribed. Sulfatrim suspension, to be applied under lip where the infection is twice a day and A topical for the trauma on his lip. Not mouth rot, but it is an infection. Now I'm dealing with a hunger strike. He hasn't eaten for about 5 days. Trying to offer different food now to get him to eat. I moved his cage to the warmest room in the house and upped the temp with a ceramic heat lamp. The spot he was in was too cool now that the colder weather has set in.

 

[Carlton]

He was seen yesterday by another vet. He cleaned out the green gunk up in his jaw. Two meds were prescribed. Sulfatrim suspension, to be applied under lip where the infection is twice a day and A topical for the trauma on his lip. Not mouth rot, but it is an infection. Now I'm dealing with a hunger strike. He hasn't eaten for about 5 days. Trying to offer different food now to get him to eat. I moved his cage to the warmest room in the house and upped the temp with a ceramic heat lamp. The spot he was in was too cool now that the colder weather has set in.

IMHO the term "mouth rot" or stomatitis is often misused. It isn't a specific disease in itself, but a symptom of an active infection that happens to occur in the mouth. Am I correct vets?

Glad it was diagnosed and there's a treatment plan based on the diagnosis! Its probably painful now that it's been cleaned out so I'm not surprised he isn't eating. You could try giving him bug juice so he doesn't have to chew anything. Poor little guy, here's wishing him well!

 

[Tombegood]

IMHO the term "mouth rot" or stomatitis is often misused. It isn't a specific disease in itself, but a symptom of an active infection that happens to occur in the mouth. Am I correct vets?

Glad it was diagnosed and there's a treatment plan based on the diagnosis! Its probably painful now that it's been cleaned out so I'm not surprised he isn't eating. You could try giving him bug juice so he doesn't have to chew anything. Poor little guy, here's wishing him well!

Yeah if he doesn't eat soon I'll mash up a few crickets and "spoon feed" him...

 

[Tombegood]

Okay, I will schedule an appointment. Thanks so much for your input!

On the hunt again

 

[Carlton]

Good news! Hope he keeps getting better!

 

[Tombegood]

Good news! Hope he keeps getting better!

Thanks Carlton for your help. It made a difference. The infection is going away and he is eating again.

Peace,

Tom