moment of truth ?

[xanthoman]

today will be the moment of truth for my 5 micro size xanth neonates. i have had about a hundred hydei maggots in their .5gal cage, and i have seen a couple of tongue shootings but its not easy to tell if they were successful. the culture of hydei have begun hatching, and i will be inundating their cage with hydei today as soon as the neonates get warmed up. normally it is common for baby xanths to spend much of their time with their mouths open (presumably a hunger display in hopes of something flying or crawling in) but these have not done that, so i am a little worried, in a couple of hrs i will bury them in ffs and see what happens, at a mere .5g each they would not likely survive any type of force feeding, and if they dont eat readily today, they probably wont make it. fingers crossed.

 

[laurie]

We need to concentrate here that they make it. They are too cute to lose.

 

[reptoman]

any luck with the feeding?

 

[ijmccollum]

How the babies doing? Do you have access to hatched FF's? My babies were eating them w/in 48h. I never tried the maggots, but then it was quite the surprise and I had to take a 45 min drive south to purchase flies in a hurry. Put every one in the house on their ear, including the husband who doesn't get too excited about anything. He is the one who actually made the trip to get the FF's. I currently try to keep a culture going at all times since you never know what life will throw you way. Hope you all are doing well. Keep us posted.

 

[xanthoman]

micro-neonate update

i am sorry to report that the micro neonates are not doing well (im afraid to say thats pretty much as expected) only one or two have shown enough vitality to feed. mid day i placed 30 or 40 hydei in the cage and a couple of them did snag 2or3 ffs but that is not enough to sustain them, shortly after they were all back asleep, i used a bamboo skewer to wake them, and at least one snaged another ff but thats still not enough. neonates (especially ones that size) need to engage in a feeding frenzy in order to have the energy to carry them through. they are not looking strong and i am struggling with a decision to force feed fruit fly water through a dental syringe, which has succeded with a couple of newly born neonates before, but they were almost twice the size and much stronger to begin with. even with their compromised beginning , i want them to have a shot. but mother nature is wise in her wisdom and i am not sure that force feeding them only to continue living without a good prognosis for long term survival, is the thing to do . 1/2 of me says attempt force feed, the other half says provide them food, light, heat, and moisture, and let nature take its course. what does every one think ? i am leaving for the store and when i return (in about 1 hr) i will check the forum and follow forum concensus (assuming there are any replies). i have successfully raised jacksons before, and i know enough to know that unless something changes soon, they are not likely to make it past tomorrow.

 

[pssh]

I think if they don't make it, they weren't meant to. If you think one seems stronger or more lively then maybe you could focus your attention on it and see what happens.

 

[adamkwas]

I think if they don't make it, they weren't meant to. If you think one seems stronger or more lively then maybe you could focus your attention on it and see what happens.

Totally agreed. Offer what you can(food,water and light), and let mother nature do the rest.


Good luck with you neonates,

 

[laurie]

Damn John I really wanted them to live. What is meant to be will be, offer everything they need and then we hope for the best. Let me know.

 

[Chase]

How are they?

 

[xanthoman]

two were up roaming around this morning, late for work so just turned the light on dumped in about 50 hydei.didnt even really have time to check them out. should be home by 2:00pm pst

 

[ijmccollum]

Given their minute size, I wouldn't try to force feed. It is pretty traumatic as I am sure you are aware. What about bug juice drops on leaves? Just an idea. Keep up the vigilant care. My thoughts are with you and your wee-bits. Keep us posted and know you are doing the best you can.

 

[xanthoman]

just got home about 20 min ago , one looks pretty listless, sleeping on his side (not normal or good) but stirs when you wake him and then goes back to sleep (more not good). the other 4 were active and alert and walking around the cage , havent seen any eat since i got home and im not sure what to make of that. looks to be about 1/3 as many hydei as when i left this morning but there enclosure is not yet 100% escape proof as far as ff are concerned,(ill try to fix that today) so i dont really know if the hydei have been escaping or getting eaten ? one things for sure the listless one wont make it past tomorrow if i dont do something, pretty sure if i force feed, it will just hasten its demise, if that happened i would feel as though i just tortured it for its last day on earth, im inclined to just let it be, but i havent made up my mind 100%. if it shows any spark of life today i may gavage 2 drops of bug water fortified with a micro dose of herptivite ? they have low output uvb for a portion of the day and that seems to perk them up some. may post some pics later today

 

[Syn]

When I had to force feed a crested, I used really watered down CGD. I did not force it's mouth open, but I did put a little bit on the front of it's mouth. A little went in, even if it was not a lot, it was still something. I don't know if this will help out, but it's just an experience I had. The crested made it.

 

[ijmccollum]

just got home about 20 min ago , one looks pretty listless, sleeping on his side (not normal or good) but stirs when you wake him and then goes back to sleep (more not good). the other 4 were active and alert and walking around the cage , havent seen any eat since i got home and im not sure what to make of that. looks to be about 1/3 as many hydei as when i left this morning but there enclosure is not yet 100% escape proof as far as ff are concerned,(ill try to fix that today) so i dont really know if the hydei have been escaping or getting eaten ? one things for sure the listless one wont make it past tomorrow if i dont do something, pretty sure if i force feed, it will just hasten its demise, if that happened i would feel as though i just tortured it for its last day on earth, im inclined to just let it be, but i havent made up my mind 100%. if it shows any spark of life today i may gavage 2 drops of bug water fortified with a micro dose of herptivite ? they have low output uvb for a portion of the day and that seems to perk them up some. may post some pics later today

I am not sure I would gavage unless you are really competent at it. I kind of second syns advice in letting it seep in rather than trying to get into the esophagus. Seen one to many mice drowned and near bovine drownings when not done correctly. Wishing you all the best. Keep us posted and of course pics as time allows --don't want any undue stress on the lil' ones.

 

[xanthoman]

gavage?

every day since they have been born, i have let i tiny drop of strained cricket/ff water hang of off the lower half of their jaw, for me thats just sop for any neonate that appears to be under/not eating, best accomplished when in a head down position, in order for actual drowning to occur ,fluid would have to be aspirated into the lungs via the traechea, located in front of and underneath the tongue, still a posibility due to regurgitation as a result of over gavage. normally i would consider myself adept at such a task , but since the entire situation was unexpected, i am ill prepared for such an attempt , the only thing i have on hand is a curved tip large bodied (with no measurement markings ) dental syringe, which would make it very tricky to limit delivery to a single small drop, any more would risk bursting the stomach, or drowning due to regurgitation or any # of other issues. certainly not the best tool for the job. that is part of the issue, if i had a better tool , like a very low volume syringe , rubber cannula, (or appropriately sized metal cannula that would slip into a micro fine iv tube) then it would be less of a decision, but since i am ill equipped, i am likely to pass. not looking good for the listless one/discouraging

 

[ijmccollum]

I am so, so sorry for your predicament. No matter what you do, you will be second guessing yourself. I am in no position to advise. I wish you all the best. Only you can call it.

 

[xanthoman]

Que sera sera !

 

[xanthoman]

todays update on the micro neonates

my apologies to all those who have been following so intently, i use public wi-fi to connect to the internet and it is barely in range so it is not always reliable. i am afraid to say that today has yeilded no real suprises, the listless one appears to be close to death, and another is not looking all that strong , the remaing three were up moving around their cage today, but not displaying the aggressive eating they will need to do in order to make it through with out some intervention (despite having a high concentration of hydei available). tomorrow is another day, and time will tell, thanks to everyone for the positive emails and well wishes

 

[ijmccollum]

Thanks for keeping us posted. No need to apologise for any timelyness issues -- we are all aware your attention is needed elsewhere. Best to you and yours.

 

[xanthoman]

update

sometime last night, one of the more active ones was roaming around his cage and started licking the side of the damp cage and i had the dental syringe with strained gutloaded 1/4" cric, plus ultra nano dose multivite with cal, all in suspended solution, already to go, and to my suprise, once i got the syringe in place, he just kept right on drinking, . i managed to get that one neonate to drink a considerable volume of water, probably about the equivalent of what would be one full drop of water, just before it dropped of the syringe, were it not being disturbed./ i have no way of measuring any volume that small, but i would say its a lot (even though the nutritional contribution is negligible), considering their size, and definitely an improvment overall, at least for that one neonate. i know i promised to get some pictures up, but i havent been feeling the camera thing lately, they sleep more than they should, so i think a little stimulation might be good. maybe the excitement of a photo shoot will wake them up a little, they would sleep too much if i let them. they would just reach a point where they didnt wake up. we shall see, hopefully tomorrow will be a good day for the micro neonates !