Mixing Chameleons with Fish

[Mike french]

Hi all
I was just wondering if it would be possible to mix chameleons with fish. I was thinking of having half the botton of my Viv/tank with water and fish in it and the other half stones. With vines and plants reaching up for my Veiled Chameleon.
I was just wondering if this would be possible with Chams as iv seen it with water dragons.

Thanks for any help that comes.

 

[ataraxia]

The answer will be no. A viv or terrarium is not the best choice under any instance. The long term high humidity + glass will be a no, no...

Guessing...
If your building a custom well ventilated enclosure, something like 7 feet wide, deep and height. I would imagine you could implement something like this.

 

[Hanzow]

Everything about that sounds like a bad idea...

 

[winterbones]

Everything about that sounds like a bad idea...

Agreed. Wrong cage, would be a factory of bacteria, safety hazard, and your cham may try eat the fish, if he succeeded it would be very damaging (the bones are too sharp).


P.s - Caging help:

Chameleons require cages called Flexariums (or something custom built similar to this etc). Some websites/petshops will try sell you a vivarium or tank, DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM. Flexariums/netted/screened are the only cage suitable for the well-being of a chameleon. Tanks do not allow for a temperature gradient so that a chameleon can thermoregulate (chameleons are cold-blooded, therefore they use their environment to heat/cool down their body temperatures. To do this, chameleons will move from higher to lower spots in their cage to achieve the appropriate temperate. Tanks do not allow for enough temperature change). Chameleon's also have extremely sensitive respiratory systems, therefore flexariums/netted/screened are the only cage that will provide the correct amount of ventilation. Lastly, tanks are a breeding ground for bacteria, especially with how much you will be misting your chameleon's cage). For an adult chameleon you will preferably have a 100 gallon cage 3ft X 4ft. It is recommended that if you have a very young chameleon, to lay the cage on its side till they're older in case they fall, however if they have enough vines they will be fine and you won't need to do this. Hope this helps! more info can be found in the forum under "Enclosures and Supplies".

(http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/flexarium.php)

 

[Camylove]

I say go for it. Whats the worst that could happen

 

[Oliviabryant]

If you have a room as a setup and have a fish pond I don't see the issue. But making that the only ground inside a smaller enclosure isn't the best idea for the facts that were stated above. It also very important to have a ground so you may let feeders loose so the chameleon can hunt this allows a great amount of stimulation. I let my feeders loose in the mornings and give them all day to hunt. I never find any roaming their enclosures which goes to show that they were fairly active during the day. ( I work long hours on week days)

 

[aggiegrad2012]

You could make a hybrid tank. For example, you could make you own screen cage to fit over the top of any tank. You could cover a lot of the water surface are with a lattice of sticks to discourage your cham to go that low but even then if they get underneath it then they need a way back out. You could also create a false bottom over the surface of the water, allowing for only a small surface area but a large volume of water. Once again though, if your cham goes for a swim and gets stuck underneath, well you know.... I had this happen to some darts I used to have, luckily it had been a little while since I had a top off so he was still swimming with just enough space for air. Your chameleon is also going to be pooping over the top of your water, and if its a small system the concentrated feces of chams will put a strain on you bioload, most likely causing a tank crash. You could use some eggcrate with a more visibile screen mesh over the top, possibly distract the view from outside the tank. The ideas run on and on! But hey do what you want, just don't sacrifice your wants for the animals needs, after all they are only guests in our home!

 

[Tyaeda]

I say go for it. Whats the worst that could happen

The cham could drown, eat the fish, get sick from the bacteria, be in an unsuitable cage for it's needs and not have enough temp range or ventilation. All life threatening, so I'm saying that the worst that could happen is death.

 

[chefboyardee]

I think your answer is somewhere in the middle

there are plenty of examples of people keeping chams in planted vivariums or terrariums successfully, so dont get discouraged by some of the hardliners, but you have to be experienced enough to recognize problems before they become serious. So if youre a newbie to herpatology, Id suggest trying a mesh cage first. If you have some experience, then maybe a planted tank is a possibility

From a ecological standpoint, it doesnt really make sense to try and merge a fish tank and a chameleon viv... arboreal and aquatic dont mix, especially if youre thinking about using a high-desert species like the Vieled. If you want to go down that route, Id suggest checking out poison dart frogs or other herps that do well in a heavily planted and irrigated tank

 

[CrazyChamLady13]

I'm going out in the open with this since I toy around with every new ideal. But like previously mentioned it wouldn't work out. But just maybe, maybe if you had an entire room just for one Chameleon you might be able to pull it off. But there's still bacteria risk, falling and drowning fear, etc. I WOULD NOT risk my Chameleons life!

 

[Mike french]

Thanks guys.
I was going to make a Hybrid viv/cage/tank. Tank on the bottom right and netted cage above. Only one half of the bottom would be water. The other half would be stone and vines. It would've been 4ft wide 2ft deep and 6ft high. I was hoping to have it so the tank in the bottom looked like a pond in my jungle environment. It would've been well ventilated and I was thinking of covering the pond incase the cam fell in but would of preferred it open. As you all advise against it ill find another method.

Any help to incorporate the two would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Ctg]

What about getting a chinese water dragon instead? I'd bet they would really like a setup like that.

 

[italian chameleon]

Thanks guys.
I was going to make a Hybrid viv/cage/tank. Tank on the bottom right and netted cage above. Only one half of the bottom would be water. The other half would be stone and vines. It would've been 4ft wide 2ft deep and 6ft high. I was hoping to have it so the tank in the bottom looked like a pond in my jungle environment. It would've been well ventilated and I was thinking of covering the pond incase the cam fell in but would of preferred it open. As you all advise against it ill find another method.

Any help to incorporate the two would be greatly appreciated.

bad idea! dangerous, potentially unhealthy for the chameleon and difficult to clean! get a water dragon instead!!! or an iguana! anyway remember that all reptiles love to poop in the water so you'll also need a good biological filter for your "tank" !!

What about getting a chinese water dragon instead? I'd bet they would really like a setup like that.

exactly|!

 

[aggiegrad2012]

Not dogging water dragons as I have had few myself in the past, but they eat fish very redily. You have to look into getting either really big fish or find a barrier. Mine would eat rosies, a type of feeder minnow.

 

[juice28]

never done it and not a senior experienced member/cham owner but id say....possible....yes...easy to do so for correct proper long term care and maintenance...no....

youd basically have to have a zoo or aquarium exhibit, massive amounts of real ground cover with all the little critters that break down solid wastes as well as things to keep them is check so they dont overrun anything..so on an so forth up the food chain with the cham being the top dog, a ton of live plants for air filtration and purification, proper circulation, just having some screen isnt going to cut it, youd have to have fresh air pumped in and the old stale air pumped out...your cham is going to poop, most likely in the water which is going to foul your water and give you constant nitrate and amonia spikes which is bad for the fish which will most likely lead to fish die off which will cause a bigger spike and your cham might want to have a drink or two...

im new to owning chams but ive killed enough fish lol (anyone whos kept fish has killed a few fish lol) to know that maintaining a proper fish set up is a fair amount of work as well as keeping a cham, i worked in the amazon rain forest section and the pacific reef section of the nation aquarium in baltimore and it was no joke how intricate those multiple animal set up were.. looked great from the outside but man...were talking hundred gallon plus sump tanks to keep the water clean from everything that lived on land plants included just to have that "natural" affect...dead bugs..dirt.. poop...shed skin, leaves, the natural bacteria from the animals etc etc none of that mixes well with fish in an enclosed set up..in nature that all gets swept away and broken down constantly...in an enclosed system, youd need massive filtration and a very large sump and skimmer to keep up with it along with routine clockwork maintenance schedule...

for the most part and correct me if im wrong anyone, no one really LIKES maintaining cages we like looking at them..we clean them and maintain them because we have to so our animal is healthy but if it was away to not have to pick up another turd again..keep the animal in top health and never trim prune or pick up a dead leaf.we would just sit back and watch... but the set up your talking about is way more working on it and fixing it than looking at it..

 

[Oliviabryant]

The cham could drown, eat the fish, get sick from the bacteria, be in an unsuitable cage for it's needs and not have enough temp range or ventilation. All life threatening, so I'm saying that the worst that could happen is death.

It could drown but chameleons can also puff themselves up and basically become buoys and swim. Not that you should try it at home but unfortunately you can find videos of it.