Melleri Not Digesting Food!

[chamlover]

My other melleri, not the one with the tumor, but my rescue, Sampson. He is the one that originally gained about 50-60 gr and then lost it within 2 wks. Both fecals have now come back clean. Is there anyway that is possible? i have started him on Panacur anyway just to be on the save side. My concern with him now is that he has not been digesting his food. I was misting him and i happened to look up at him and i saw what i thought was a hornworm crawling into his butt. I know "gross". Tell ME about it. The hrnwrm was completely green, just like when you take it out of the container. I wasn't sure what to do so i gently pulled on it with the tweezers and it came out very easily. It was an entire hornworm but only half was even digested just a little bit. My hubby is thinking that maybe his good bacteria isn't working properly. I was thinking maybe considering i am starting him on Panacur anyway, is it also a good idea to start using a product like "Nutribac"? Or is there something else that i might be missing. I have never run into this. I also found another hrnwrm in his cage that he pooped out that was also very undigested, not as obvious as this one, but not digested fully. What do you think the problem might be? It is not that he is being fed too much because he has recently decreased his food intake and was pretty much only eating 1 hrnworm a day. These guys are just too incredible to describe and it will break my heart if i lose both of them.

Debby

 

[studiocham]

I was thinking maybe considering i am starting him on Panacur anyway, is it also a good idea to start using a product like "Nutribac"?

Debby, I use NutriBac df powder for my chameleons. It does make a difference in animals that have been on antibiotics.

Giving NutriBac df while the animal is ON antibiotics won't help much.

Whole undigested prey like that, an easy-to-digest hornworm, makes me wonder if there is something wrong with his actual tract. I'd start him on Nutribac df (I mix the powder to a paste with water, juice, or pedialyte) once a week. I'd also look into an ultrasound to see if he has an intestine structural problem.

Do you mean this animal has not yet been dewormed with fenbendazole (Panacur) while in your care?

 

[chamlover]

No. I was so afraid to use anything on him when he first came. i wasn't sure if he was even going to survive he was so bad. Even the vendor told me not to use any meds on him because he was too fragile and then when i got the first good fecal i wasn't in too much of a hurry and besides he was gaining weight so i thought it would be better to wait till he got more weight on him and a bit healthier. Should of, would of. Kick myself in the butt now! I did start him on it yesterday and today. If he had an intestinal blockage wouldn't that stop him from going to the bathroom at all? He's done that quite well as a matter of fact. I'm thinking of bringing him in for some tests. I think he is healthy enough now, in spite of his weight loss, to be able to go to the vets and have some blood work done and general check up. So your saying "while he is on the panacur, not to use the Nutribac"? I have never used that stuff at all. Also, i did do some research on that stuff and have found it between 2.00 and 45.00 a bottle. Is there any difference between one kind and another that you know of?

Thanks for all your help!!! Sprite has an appt tomorrow, doc wasn't in today. He goes in at 11:30. I'll let you know.
Debby

 

[studiocham]

I did start him on it yesterday and today.

Which thing did you start him on?

If he had an intestinal blockage wouldn't that stop him from going to the bathroom at all? He's done that quite well as a matter of fact.

It's not a blockage I am thinking of, but of rather bad parasite infestations that can cause such damage to the intestinal lining that the food just sloops on through. Inflammation (maybe scar tissue? any vets here today?) might be noticeable in ultrasound, but ask your vet what tests they have in mind. Passing a whole hornworm undigested is kind of dramatic.

So your saying "while he is on the panacur, not to use the Nutribac"? I have never used that stuff at all. Also, i did do some research on that stuff and have found it between 2.00 and 45.00 a bottle. Is there any difference between one kind and another that you know of?

Panacur is fenbendazole, a dewormer (anthelmintic), it is NOT an antibiotic. You can use it at the same time as you are giving probiotics (NutriBac df is a probiotic).

Nutribac df powder is $10 a bottle:
http://www.reptileuv.com/nutribac-df-probiotic-for-reptiles.php

That bottle lasted me almost three years, kept refrigerated (check your own bottle's expiration date).

You could use NutriBac df while an animal is on antibiotics, but the antibiotic will very likely kill any positive bacteria you're trying to "install".

You are quite welcome- we love to see rescues become big, beautiful survivors!

 

[chamlover]

I started him on Panacur and no, no vets today, i tried 2 differnt ones that i use. I could see me Wed the othr Thurs. I will ask about what tests they will do. Do you have any suggestions? Neitherof these vets are extremely knowledgeable about chams. So it is quite important that he didn't digest the hornworm? Now i'm really worried. Maybe i should bring in both my melleri tomorrow. Don't know if he could see both though and the one i am bringing him to isn't the one that has the most knowledge. It's so frustrating!!!! My rescue was doing soo well until i changed his stupid cage. Then he started going downhill. Most likely due to stress agian right? New cage and all. Parasites took over?

Debby

 

[studiocham]

I started him on Panacur and no, no vets today, i tried 2 differnt ones that i use. I could see me Wed the othr Thurs. I will ask about what tests they will do. Do you have any suggestions?

Clarifying: This is an animal that has had two clean fecals, and who has passed undigested food. It is just now getting fenbendazole for the first time.

Yes, it is possible to get two clean fecals and the third be a bloom of worm oocysts. They have cycles, oocysts are not in constant supply.

What meds did you give him originally, to get the clean fecals?

Microfilaria (Foleyella species) can burrow through everything, including the GI tract, but often go undetected unless found by surgery or blood smear.

My rescue was doing soo well until i changed his stupid cage. Then he started going downhill. Most likely due to stress agian right? New cage and all. Parasites took over?

Just stress alone is hard on them, and indigestion could result.

Has there been any blood with his feces?

 

[Eric Adrignola]

I've seen relativly "easy to digest" worms (waxworms, silkworms) pass all the way through a chameleon in the past.

I had initially thought they were vomited up (which can happen with over fed chameleons). however, the intact worms were accompanied by feces.

I'm not sure what the cause was, but I remember when it happened. The animals were eating a large quantity of soft larvae. both were veileds (may have been the same one, but I can't remember). They passed normal feces, with cricket parts, and intact silkworms (and waxworms the other time).

they had no problem with the crickets, but for some reason the larvae passed intact. I think they were relativly unchewed. I kept an eye on their feces for a while afterwards, an deverything seemed to be digested normally - simply normal turds with silkworm heads - no sign of the rest of the silkworm.

If it's a chronic problem, and happens with all prey items, then it's in need of attention. If it is a one time thing, then... well, I dunno.

I was thinking it may be a result of the prey being full of food - lots of silkworms going in with lots of mulberry puree, or waxworms fill with honey ( I fed my waxworms). they could release all their contents into the chameleon's stomach, causing unpredictable results.

Or, follow the razor - the simplest explaination.

He could just has diarrhea, a potential symptom of parasites, or even from treatment (did you treat just prior to the hornworm coming out?). When animals have diarrhea, sometimes food comes out exactly as it was swallowed.