Megana: 725g 23.5" gravid Meller's

WC animals are usually a bit thin. You have to take that into consideration. Was her body in good condition, were her bones showing, or was she still in good shape?

Hydration is an important factor that needs to be looked at in detail. A fresh WC aniaml i slikely to be down multiple grams in water weight. She was not really a fresh WC, I believe. I'm sure if Mike did anything, it was rehydrate them a bit. Hard to know for sure.

The fact that she laid eggs does not mean that she was under weight or thin. She might have been in good condition post-laying. When overfed, female veileds will emerge form the nest looking like they were just raised from the dead. When not overfed, you'll hardly know the difference. My females body condition looks the same all the time - only the eggs come and go.

It's possible that she was needing more body mass after laying eggs. It's also possible that she was pretty good, and ~400 grams was close to her optimum weight. I didnt' see her, so I don't know what sort of condition she was in.

Were her tail bones visible or pronounced? Was her skull sunken all over and her eyes as well? Were her ribs and vertebrae protruding? Could you easily discern the two bones in her lower limbs? Did she feel "light" for her size?

If not, then she's probably healthy around 400-450 grams normally.

This female I have is at 412, but she's been putting on weight for a couple months - belly weight. I'm sure it's eggs, fertile or not. I have to check with Kristina, but I believe she was weighing in around 325-375 before I got her in March. Any real change has been in an increase in her belly - so her healthy weight is probably under 400 grams. At 400 grams, she feels really heavy even for her size.

I know hat Ardi is at a healthy weight, if not slightly overweight. And him and the female together are still under 700! That's 42" of melleri. Hehe.
 
This is just my curiousity but which minerals would you guys think would effect or cause an edema or maybe a combination ?I have a female oustalets that has laid two clutches after each she developed a huge edema for about two weeks then it disappeared.I'm just baffled by this.
 
I think it's a very complicated issue of nutritional balance. I've never had edema, save for one female veield who became gravid during the brief period of time I was NOT using preformed vitamin A in their diet. She's laid around 7 clutches in her 5 years, and only that one time did she get edema. I had a WC melleri have a slight swelling on hes eye and throat. I was very hesitant to use reptivite on him. The edema never returned once I started giving him vitamin A every two weeks.

Not all edema is caused by vitamin A, of course.
 
Hmmm. I think what we may have here is a very overweight, gravid, chameleon. Her mate, Hercules, always felt lightweight when I held him. He stayed in the 225+g range. By comparison, Megana always felt heavy. Glad you posted Eric. I had her out for some more exercise today.


Mike definitely rehydrated his girls well before shipping them out. Her arrival appearance actually looks quite good, even weight-wise. Here are photos upon her arrival:

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And 2 weeks later

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Judging by her appearance in those pics, I think it would be a good idea to try to keep her normal weight around what it was when she arrived, give or take a little.

She looked in good condition, and could probably have used a little more meat on her, but not much at all. So if she was 400 grams and in good, healthy condition, I would try to keep her close to that.

She looked GOOD when she arrived. Since then, she has added more than the weight of my 20" male! That is a good way to put in perspective how much of that weight she doesn't need.
 
My thoughts exactly, after viewing all the photos again and looking over her weight history. Glad we keep careful records. She's definitely built for survival, storing fat the way she does. We fed her mate, Hercules, the same diet, and he wouldn't gain an ounce! Actually, he ate more than she did.
 
Was he WC? Could be some sort of parasite that slipped by. Also could be a combination of things. It is entirely possible that some of her weight is fluid weight and swellings, not just body fat. Does she get any preformed vitamin A in her diet?
 
Eric Adrignola said:
Was he WC? Could be some sort of parasite that slipped by. Also could be a combination of things. It is entirely possible that some of her weight is fluid weight and swellings, not just body fat. Does she get any preformed vitamin A in her diet?
Click to expand...

We do believe Hercules was WC. We got him as an adult, from "The Wild Side" a small Mom&Pop type pet store in our area. If I remember correctly they told us he came from Southern California. When we got Hercules I don't think we were doing our own fecal exams. All our fecal exams were done by a vet. (We did get our microscope soon after we got him, because I remember once he got acclimated he provided a sperm sample which helped us verify his gender.) His first exams show Pinworm and Rhabdias (?), he was treated, and subsequent regular screenings were clean, until March of 2008 when he came up with very small amount of Pinworms again, and after treatment for that he was clean. I don't know how detailed the initial doctor's fecal tests were for Hercules. Such as staining or centrifuge, etc. I just didn't know that much about it at the time. And I don't know about that Rhabdias finding. Hercules was treated with Panacur and Flagyl, at that time. Later on with Reptaid.

Megana gets very little dusted supplementation, because any time I supplemented her she would get the edema. I use Mineral(I), Mineral(O), Reptivite, Vit A from a gel cap, gutload based on Kristina's recipe on the Melleri Discovery and romaine, carrots and potatoes. Megana's feeders were gutloaded and given the veggies and were dusted about once a week. Keep in mind she only ate about 3 times a week. The gel cap vitamin A would be given very infrequently, and then only a very small amount on a feeder.

There was an edema vs Vitamin A thread on this forum not too long ago, but I must confess I did not pay a great deal of attention to it because of being weary of the whole vitamin A debate. I use it on our chams very carefully. It doesn't seem to do them any harm, if done right, and hopefully it does them some good. Was it suggested that Vitamin A can cause edema, or that it can help correct edema?
 
I'm sure it does both! too much or too little of a vitamin sometimes has the annoying and highly inconvenient tenancy to cause the same apparent problems: MBD, Edema, etc.

In cases where edema is present, and the owner has made a great effort to eliminate all preformed vitamin A from the diet, a little bit of preformed A is usually all that is needed.

In cases where some preformed A is given, it's difficult to know for sure.

I'm not sure exactly how it's connected, but I do know that many very overweight chameleons tend to show chronic edema. It might be a side-affect of obesity in reptiles.
 
We began feeding Megana every other day, about 2 large feeders. Her weight dropped to 645g in about 3 weeks and her gular edema disappeared completely. But then she stopped eating, began to look bony, her eggs went into final development and her weight went up to 720g (although she herself still looked bony, with a huge belly). Time for a new batch of concerns.

She began laying her eggs. I started a new thread for her egg-laying experience, which is going on throughout this week.
 
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