MBD ... a Fall and "Noodle-Arms"

[Valentine]

My panther chameleon Mr. Ed is less than a year old. We have had him since we was 2.5 months old, and we own his "daddy". We thought we were doing everything right...the same has we had done for the two other chameleons we have. Turns out the coil UBV bulbs did not do much and much to my shock and dismay Mr. Ed had pretty bad MBD-- x-rays showed very low bone density...to the point where in parts of his arms you could not even see the outline of the bone. *sigh* (very upset over this)

So we are told to get him on liquid calcium (calcium glubonate ?). This therapy worked well, it appeared and Mr. Ed was getting back to his old self. He was developing lumpy bones in his arms.

Then last weekend we were out all day and before I went to bed I noticed Mr. Ed got wedged near the bottom of his tank. I took him out and I thought he was dead. Everything made me think he was dead-- tongue slightly sticking out, piece of urate sticking out from his vent, he was cold, he was floppy, not breathing (it appeared) and non-responsive to pinching. I was so upset I held him and rocked him... and then he grabbed my finger! We got out the heat lamp and within 30 mins he was moving around and mostly alert. We also gave a small amount saline solution as suggested by the oncall vet.

So now Mr. Ed is alert, is eating when I feed him (I think he's milking the attention), back legs look good and appear to be working well. His front legs/arms.... they look curved. The joints appear loose-- he turns his elbows and wrists around the wrong way....he has some grip in his hands...but for the most part his arms are not functioning well. *sigh*

I do not understand how things could get so bad-- was it because he may have struggles for hours and pulled something out of joint?... or his arms.. they were not curved prior to this incident. I'm so worried and racked with guilt.

Currently Mr. Ed is in a 40g aquarium with mesh lid. He has a 5% T5 UVB bulb and a heat lamp. The basking spot is around 85-90 degrees. There are vines and ladders in there, along with towels lining the floor. He gets 0.04 of calcium glubinate daily and the same of metacam (suppose to be for inflammation). He gets D3 2x week; multi x month. His crickets are fed a homemade guy load. He gets a little grub pie or carnivore care daily, as well as several misting and water with food and meds. We were are able we take him outside for natural sunlight.

Has anyone else known of such joint issues with their chameleons...and if so, have you seen them recover?

Thanks for your help everyone. If you would like a video or pics I can send them tomorrow, as I left my cell phone at work.

Thanks,

Valentiine and Mr. Ed

 

[Extensionofgreen]

If his bones were not showing in areas on the XRay, he simply doesn't have the bone structure to support himself properly and the newly forming bones are going to bend under the weight of him, as they develop. I don't think what you are experiencing is abnormal under these circumstances, but you may need to alter his enclosure to prevent falls and get him some natural sunlight or a couple hours a day of Mercury Vapor bulb basking to help him lay down strong calcium faster. These coil bulbs seem to draw newer keepers like moths to a flame, I'm guessing because they conviently fit into the various duo dome fixtures, but the really are inadequate and the people that use them successfully are lucky, rather than experiencing the efforts of good product choices. The UVB they produce is very localized and unless the chameleon is in a very small are in close proximity to the bulb, they are not getting what they need. This is why linear bulbs are recommended on the caresheets. I'm not shaming you. I made this mistake once and it's in our nature to think that newer technology (these were relatively new 10+ years ago) is going to be better than the preceding technology, but that's just another ploy of marketing.

 

[Valentine]

If his bones were not showing in areas on the XRay, he simply doesn't have the bone structure to support himself properly and the newly forming bones are going to bend under the weight of him, as they develop. I don't think what you are experiencing is abnormal under these circumstances, but you may need to alter his enclosure to prevent falls and get him some natural sunlight or a couple hours a day of Mercury Vapor bulb basking to help him lay down strong calcium faster. These coil bulbs seem to draw newer keepers like moths to a flame, I'm guessing because they conviently fit into the various duo dome fixtures, but the really are inadequate and the people that use them successfully are lucky, rather than experiencing the efforts of good product choices. The UVB they produce is very localized and unless the chameleon is in a very small are in close proximity to the bulb, they are not getting what they need. This is why linear bulbs are recommended on the caresheets. I'm not shaming you. I made this mistake once and it's in our nature to think that newer technology (these were relatively new 10+ years ago) is going to be better than the preceding technology, but that's just another ploy of marketing.

Thanks for your reply-- I forgot to mention that the latest xray showed much more dense bone in his arms...lumpy bone-- not smooth. And before the fall/ incident I only notices a small roundness and the "double elbow"..not this drastic change...

 

[Extensionofgreen]

Lumpy bones could be the result of the bones attempting to repair micro fractures and weakens areas by depositing more calcium in these vulnerable areas. The bones will not form normally with the weight of an adult animal on them, without bracing and that's not often done with chameleons, because of the impractability of it. I thought I had read of a chameleon having its legs wrapped under similar circumstances, but I have no personal experience with this and it is something that would have to be discussed with an experienced vet. I'd reduce the enclosure size, make sure the perches and foliage are very dense and I'd make sure there are no hard edges of pots, stones, or a hard cage floor for him to land on. I'd potentially hang a hammock halfway up the cage from the bottom to reduce the chance of him falling.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@Valentine I'm sorry you are having so much trouble.

The lumpiness is the repair process around the fractures. It will reduce as the healing process continues. It sounds as if he fell and ended up with new fractures. The bending, as @Extensionofgreen said, is related to the bones not being strong enough to support the weight they are asked to support.

MBD is not always caused by poor Vitamin D/UVB lighting. It is also caused by kidney damage, which is usually caused by chronic low-level dehydration, a common occurence with captive chameleons.

As well, lights sometimes fail, even brand new ones.

As @Extensionofgreen mentioned, natural sunlight is the best source of UVB.