Maybe interesting discussion

[Eszzie]

I was thinking it maybe is interesting to set up a discussion about differences in care of chameleons throughout other country's.
I'm from The Netherlands and some things are quite different here. \

At first we mostly keep chameleons in a glass terrarium, which i personally dislike. I imported a screen cage all the way from USA

We also build cages outside to keep most cham outside in big space for the most time of the year.

About substrate I often read here that you don't use any?

Personally I use cocoturf. I don't know what it's called in USA but it's made of coconut and earth/soil(?)

Sorry, don't know all the words, anyways my opinion is that using a natural substrate makes a good balance between bacteriums and molds so plants can grow and tiny little insects can live on the floor just as in the wild. Dead leaves and droppings I leave on the ground. This is just my opinion but I'm curious about what others have to say about this.

 

[pssh]

Substrate is bad because they can cause mold problems and these tiny little bugs you talk about could be mites, which are bad. It is also bad because the chameleon can ingest the substrate when it is eating from the floor of the cage and become impacted. Impaction can lead to death, which is also bad.

Its also not natural. Most chameleons live high up in the trees and never get down to the floor of the forests unless they are going to lay eggs. So it is actually unnatural for them to eat the dirt off the floor and for them to even have dirt that close to them.

If I were you, I'd take it out before something bad happens, if you have a large chameleon.

 

[hallenhe]

Good thread, and a good reminder that many of us get set in the idea that there's One Right Way, when different things can, in fact, work for different people.
At least in the US, substrate for the larger species is generally discouraged, for fear of chams eating it and this causing impaction; however, pygmy chameleons are commonly kept in glass and with substrate (a common one is a pure shredded coconut bark, without the added earth). I was unaware of this forum with my first cham, and he had access to potted plants in their regular potting soil; he apparently was never tempted to eat it and we had no problems (probably helpful that feeder insects were in a different place, in a cup).
I've always heard it highly recommended to have an outdoor cage and leave the chams outside, weather permitting. I believe this is good when possible, but I would not feel safe doing this in my neighborhood, with possums, raccoons and the occasional coyote as well as the fact that we're the only owner-occupied house on the block (all others rentals) and live one block off a very large university campus. My guy goes outdoors when possible, but only with supervision.
Humidity is really different in different parts of the country. Florida, Arizona and Michigan are going to differ drastically in recommended watering/misting regimens. In Michigan, a heavy misting once a day is fine in the summer, when it's humid; I can mist my pygmy terrarium in the morning and the humidity gauge reads 80 and there's still water droplets on the leaves at lights-out. In the winter, when the furnace is on, humidity is barely 50 when I get home from work and I mist at least twice a day, three times if I'm home midday.

 

[heloderm]

Substrate is bad because they can cause mold problems and these tiny little bugs you talk about could be mites, which are bad. It is also bad because the chameleon can ingest the substrate when it is eating from the floor of the cage and become impacted. Impaction can lead to death, which is also bad.

Its also not natural. Most chameleons live high up in the trees and never get down to the floor of the forests unless they are going to lay eggs. So it is actually unnatural for them to eat the dirt off the floor and for them to even have dirt that close to them.

If I were you, I'd take it out before something bad happens, if you have a large chameleon.

You would be surprised at how much time chams spend on the floor. I've seen wild veileds spend a good amount of time on the floor switching between tree's and what not. If you look around or ever watch animal planet when chams are on you'll often see they are on the move on the ground. They can't always be in the trees, they must go in search of food.....

I don't keep my chams on substate but they do have plants and they will eat crickets from the dirt. People can get a little crazy about what they think is good or bad for their animals. The chams in the wild seem to do just fine and I'm sure there is plenty of dirt out there lol.

Eszzie, People in Europe and elsewhere over seas tend to stick to a more natural habitat. Not only that but they usually provide MUCH larger enclosures for their animals. People here seem to see how many animals they can cram into a small enclosure. I'd put money on it that, that's why people overseas have had much success with many animals that we can't seem to get right here (this includes venomous as well as non-venomous reptiles as a whole). It is interesting to look at the differences between how people keep them in different places in the world!

 

[Eszzie]

You would be surprised at how much time chams spend on the floor. I've seen wild veileds spend a good amount of time on the floor switching between tree's and what not. If you look around or ever watch animal planet when chams are on you'll often see they are on the move on the ground. They can't always be in the trees, they must go in search of food.....

I don't keep my chams on substate but they do have plants and they will eat crickets from the dirt. People can get a little crazy about what they think is good or bad for their animals. The chams in the wild seem to do just fine and I'm sure there is plenty of dirt out there lol.

Eszzie, People in Europe and elsewhere over seas tend to stick to a more natural habitat. Not only that but they usually provide MUCH larger enclosures for their animals. People here seem to see how many animals they can cram into a small enclosure. I'd put money on it that, that's why people overseas have had much success with many animals that we can't seem to get right here (this includes venomous as well as non-venomous reptiles as a whole). It is interesting to look at the differences between how people keep them in different places in the world!

Well, There are a lot of people here too that keep more chameleons in one small cage. Especially pet stores are very bad here, they say all kinds of things about chameleons just to sell them. I think everywhere in the world you have people that just don't care enough about animals as they should.

About substrate, I tihnk you're right, chameleons do come on the ground and out of research we learned that eating substrate from the floor is because the chameleon is in need of certain mineralls that should be provided by other things than substrate. So if you add mineralls to the food of your chameleon, it will not feel the need to eat substrate from the ground.

Also mites and other insects appear in nature too and chameleons are mostly resistant to these, they will not do any harm.

People, in my opinion, are much too afraid something bad will happen and take care of their animal too good. You would be surprised if you know what chameleons are often exposed to in their natural habitat. Some molds can't do any harm

 

[eisentrauti]

Substrate is bad because they can cause mold problems and these tiny little bugs you talk about could be mites, which are bad. It is also bad because the chameleon can ingest the substrate when it is eating from the floor of the cage and become impacted. Impaction can lead to death, which is also bad.

Its also not natural. Most chameleons live high up in the trees and never get down to the floor of the forests unless they are going to lay eggs. So it is actually unnatural for them to eat the dirt off the floor and for them to even have dirt that close to them.

If I were you, I'd take it out before something bad happens, if you have a large chameleon.

I'm keeping chams with soil and other forms of substrate since years and I have never had any problems with it

 

[ciafardo 4]

I personally don't use any but i agree people do over react to using substrate i really don't see any problems with it for the same reasons as stated in earlier posts . There is no exact procedure to keeping a chameleon i believe its what ever works for you and your chameleon.People on this forum have things drilled into their heads like substrate is bad, plants that are mildly toxic,keeping chameleons in glass and last but not least my personal favorite BAKING STICKS IN THE OVEN. Like i said earlier it's what ever works for you .