Lobes

[studiocham]

There is a lot of variety in the shape of melleri lobes. The lobes are not a reliable method for identifying individuals; lobes may alter over the lifetime of the chameleon. They are easily damaged and will change shape and thickness upon healing. It's definitely a good topic for comparing photos. Let's see your lobes!

Folded into each other

These lobes naturally stuck out sideways, even when at rest.

Please excuse the hornworm guts.

Roll top lobes

Webbed lobes

 

[nightcrawler]

not to be off topic and have no pictures of any lobs, but i was just thinking that thos reminded me of ceratopsian dinosaurs. food for thought.

 

[studiocham]

not to be off topic and have no pictures of any lobs, but i was just thinking that thos reminded me of ceratopsian dinosaurs. food for thought.

I can see that similarity- especially the one with the laterally extended lobes, reminiscent of ceratopsian frills. Ceratopsians had the extreme protection of bone frills, not fleshy lobes. The only thing they have in common is the impressive display both types of animal could get when they arched the neck/dropped the rostrum.

Could lobes protect a melleri from a predator's bite to the neck? Another question for the field.

 

[nightcrawler]

also the horn. i forget what ceratopsian it was but there was one that had just one horn like that. very cool.

Could lobes protect a melleri from a predator's bite to the neck? Another question for the field.

i dont know melleri well, or at all to be honest, but i dont think that was the reason. one of theories of the lobes on ceratopsian dinosaurs was that it was for attracting a mate.
do melleri puff it out and up when its about to mate or attracting a mate?
it could protect them from a bite, dont get me wrong, i have no clue how tough and thick they are. if it would be hard to get threw then maybe.
also they could puff it up (if they can puff it up, im only speculating) to avoid predators. make themselves look bigger.

what do you know they do with it?

this is very interesting. there is a guy at this pet store by my house that got a melleri, i should check in on him and find out if he is doing ok.

 

[studiocham]

also the horn. i forget what ceratopsian it was but there was one that had just one horn like that.

Monoclonius leaps to mind. Einiosaurus has a horn oriented forward, like melleri.

Lobes feel like a piece of thick leather, or stiff rubber. The undersides have thin, delicate skin.

what do you know they do with it?

They hold the lobes out sideways from the head to bluff, and can flick the lobes rapidly in territorial and courtship displays. Sometimes, they raise one lobe at a novel prey item, before shooting the tongue. Lobes may move slightly when they chew. When you see a large melleri holding up its lobes, hissing, squinting, laterally compressed, and swaying, you don't feel like messing with it. To paraphrase Larson: this is how Nature says "do not touch".

This was a fresh import before he settled in, holding up his lobes in warning/bluff:

This is the previously shown male with the laterally-oriented lobes, holding them up as far as he could:

 

[Cainschams]

I love the mellers. Your pics are very nice too. I wanted to get one for my second cham but couldnt find any CB so I went with the panther instead. I will one day own one though. I love the fact that they are huge and also have very interesting color scheme.

 

[nightcrawler]

with that being said i dont think that they are "ment" to block a bite. they might infact do that in some situations, but i dont think that is how they evolved. i could be wrong but i think it is more of a mate thing.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Great lobe pictures, Kristina.

Isn't it interesting how they usually hold up the lobe furthest from the opponent they are trying to impress? I.e. if you're on the right side of the chameleon, he'll raise his left lobe at you and vice versa.

 

[studiocham]

Great lobe pictures, Kristina.

Thanks! Where are yours, hmmmm?

Isn't it interesting how they usually hold up the lobe furthest from the opponent they are trying to impress? I.e. if you're on the right side of the chameleon, he'll raise his left lobe at you and vice versa.

I love that gesture, very humorous to see. I thought it was a mild warning, as in, "you're pushing my limits". The raised, pinched foot may follow. Is it just conserving energy, knowing that it doesn't need to raise both lobes to get the message across? I've seen them do that to prey, too.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Thanks! Where are yours, hmmmm?

I've never specifically taken pictures of lobes, maybe I'll take some this weekend. I should take some of Dume's 'alley cat' lobe - he's missing a little triagular wedge, just like a cartoon alley cat.

I love that gesture, very humorous to see. I thought it was a mild warning, as in, "you're pushing my limits". The raised, pinched foot may follow. Is it just conserving energy, knowing that it doesn't need to raise both lobes to get the message across? I've seen them do that to prey, too.

I think it's simply giving a different message than raising both lobes. In my experience they raise both lobes when approaching their apponent head-on and just one lobe when they are the ones being approached. And with opponent I mean anything from rival melleri to keepers to big bug.
I've never actually documented this carefully but that's what I'm pulling up from memory now.

Whatever it is; lobes rock!

 

[studiocham]

I think it's simply giving a different message than raising both lobes. In my experience they raise both lobes when approaching their apponent head-on and just one lobe when they are the ones being approached. And with opponent I mean anything from rival melleri to keepers to big bug.
I've never actually documented this carefully but that's what I'm pulling up from memory now.

Whatever it is; lobes rock!

It took me a while, but the more I squinted at the pic above of Kitambi (one flap up), the more I thought... Melleri raise the furthest flap from the opponent because that is the lobe that makes them look larger in outline from a lateral or near-3/4 view. Raising the lobe closest to the opponent doesn't make as marked a change to the outline of the head. You can test this by printing out and tracing that pic (or any lateral view pic of a lobe raised). If you retrace it, and try to draw in the near side lobe raised, with the far lobe flat, the near lobe only makes a shallow bump in the outline. It's quite enough of a difference to notice, and the opponent may instinctively know that something with a bigger head may have a more damaging bite, & thus should be avoided. It would seem that these chameleons have an understanding of the visual perspective of their approaching/stationary opponents, either from the front or the side, and play upon that. Lateral compression, pffff, anyone can do that. It also makes energy-conserving sense to select one lobe to raise for an outline effect, instead of going all guns blazing (which would be both lobes, every single time). I wonder if they position themselves with the sun behind the far side, when approached in the wild, and really pull off the one-lobe bluff?

Yes, lobes are the best! I am a serial lobe thread starter.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Megana and Hercules lobes

Megana- flat lobes

Hercules (the day we got him)- roll top lobes

 

[studiocham]

Megana has the same style lobes as my two new females.

Here's a pic of #3 telling me that I am too close to her cricket bucket. She went from no lobes, to one lobe up, to both lobes in a just a few seconds. Note that she has turned her head towards me/camera, even though only one lobe is raised. Then, her other lobe flew right up for the full frontal. lol

I have a LTC male whose lobes are 1/3rd folded under. He is blowing out a huge shed right now, but I'll share pix soon.

 

[studiocham]

Raising the lobe closest to the opponent doesn't make as marked a change to the outline of the head. You can test this by printing out and tracing that pic (or any lateral view pic of a lobe raised). If you retrace it, and try to draw in the near side lobe raised, with the far lobe flat, the near lobe only makes a shallow bump in the outline.

...I wonder if they position themselves with the sun behind the far side, when approached in the wild, and really pull off the one-lobe bluff?

I answered my own question when I went through my old pix and found these. Sorry the photo quality isn't great. This was right before I discovered the tap water issue. The unrelated male squinted in anticipation of strikes from the other, which makes his eye look really odd. One brother is off in the background, as he wanted nothing to do with their dramatics.

Example of far lobe raised when laterally displaying at opponent:

Same male, utilizing backlighting as I mentioned:

Later, the two males with both lobes up, facing each other head-on:

Note how the higher-perched male's color changed from just spotty greens to full courtship color when he came down to face the lower male. I carried the smaller male back to his own cage, as it was getting a bit intense.

 

[dodolah]

thanks Kristina for the wonderful insight.
I am a meller fan (from a far)
I am not confident enough to keep one. That's why I always enjoy seeing beautiful pictures of this species.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

These guys have the largest mouths. Check out the cavern #3 presented to the camera. My goodness. You'd think they could really do some damage!

 

[studiocham]

I have a LTC WC male whose lobes are 1/3rd folded under. He is blowing out a huge shed right now, but I'll share pix soon.

Here he is... Distal side of lobe:

Proximal side of lobe:

When he was a juvenile, the folded parts could be lifted by a finger. Now they have grafted to the skin of the backside/proximal side!

 

[studiocham]

There is a lot of variety in the shape of melleri lobes. The lobes are not a reliable method for identifying individuals; lobes may alter over the lifetime of the chameleon.

I was examining my CB female the other day, and noticed that her lobes have changed yet again, and she's only 3 years old. Now, she has distinctly, sharply folded-over lobes, not round "rolltops" anymore.

If she's like a male here, the folded sections' inner surfaces will eventually fuse together permanently.

It certainly isn't from lack of use, everyone gets flippy at breeding time. Just a really odd observation...

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Finally got some good lobe pics of Dume:

note the alleycat-like gap in the right lobe

Hey! No eating with your lobes up!

 

[studiocham]

Look at his muscles!!

If it takes a captive 6 years to reach Dume's skull size, do you think he's at least 8 or 9 years old?