Liver Fungus - Granuloma? [DISTURBING PHOTOS]

[TCMontium]

My English is not fluent so I may use wrong words or I may have misunderstood some things I read.


I had a female Jackson's at last autumn. I named her Xantastasia. She was an adult and I bought her right after she was imported from Europe. She lived like 5-6 weeks without a single problem, like an ordinary chameleon. Than one day, I found her acting VERY WEIRD just after seeing her normal 20-30 minutes ago?! She was doing some weird moves which I can not remember right now, but I remember well that I picked her up quickly and she did roll and bend his body, arms and legs like crazy for a short while.
Then she stopped. She was like exhausted and was not able to grab something or stand on her feet. Maybe she was not even moving her eyes, I do not remember every detail. Then I watched her die slowly in my hands, her tongue went out of her mouth and she died seconds or minutes after that...
Then I did a "surgery" to find what the cause of that sudden death was. I suspected that she ate something dangerous, but there was nothing dangerous for her to eat in cage and I found nothing in her mouth, throat or stomach. Actually, as soon as I see her opened up, I saw something unusual (to me). Her liver was filled with lots of little white balls... That was the only thing I could consider "not normal" about her but I am not a reptile expert, so I was not sure.
Her death was not explainable until today. I am still not sure, but I just discovered that there is a fungus named Chamaeleomyces granulomatis. Yet I did not read about it accept its name, its hosts (which are some species of chameleons as much as I understood) and its appearance... It can be found in liver and it creates little white balls called granuloma.
This fungus is my number 1 suspect now, but as I said, I am not sure.

There is the artical I found about granuloma on chameleons :

http://jcm.asm.org/content/48/9/3182.full.pdf
http://jcm.asm.org/content/48/9/3182.full


And there is my female Jacksons, 5-10 minutes after her death :

Liver at right side (I did not cut her liver and took better photos of white balls, I wish I did) :

So, what do you say? Is it quiet possible for these balls to be granuloma? Can they be something else? Can the cause of her weird and sudden death be these things?

 

[sgiac801]

Sorry for the loss

I don't know anything about the possibility of granuloma/fungus although the description does seem to match from what you said. I just looked up a photo of a healthy chameleon's organs, and it seems like her liver was enlarged in addition to having white spots.

Healthy chameleon's necropsy photo: http://www.chameleonnews.com/02MayGreek.html

I have heard that chameleon's don't usually show signs of being sick until they are very very sick, usually at the point of no return, so it's possible she was sick the whole time you had her. I hope you find your answer.

 

[carol5208]

Send a private message to our vet on here. Her name is Dayna and she goes by member name ferretinmyshoes. I am sure she could give you an explanation on what you are seeing. I am sorry that you lost her.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I am very sorry you lost her. Kudos to you for opening her up and having a look.

I wish more keepers did rough necropsies for unexplained deaths if they can't afford or choose not to spend the money for a vet to do it. Having a look a the internal organs is a good way to gauge health of your group of animals. I always look through my chickens that either have been sick/culled or I've slaughtered.

Was she a wild-caught import?

The "weird moves" you describe at death might be just what happened at her death. Death is a process. Nothing goes peacefully into the night. I wish it did.

 

[JoeVet]

Those are definitely granulomas and quite possible fungal although you can not rule out bacteria, other fungi, or mycobacteria which are common or other systemic infection. We can say it is definitely infectious. Histolpathology +/- culture is needed to confirm which organism it is. Reptiles don't form liquid abscesses as seen in mammals. Their neutrophils do not contain the same digestive enzymes so instead they get solid abscesses or granulomas. A true granuloma in mammals is primarily macrophages. So while we can tell an abscess from a granuloma in mammals we can't in reptiles. That makes guessing harder to do. The fungus you mentioned has been associated with deaths at a zoo and has been written up here: http://jcm.asm.org/content/48/9/3182.full It would certainly be high on a differential list. That is a good call. Thanks for posting. If you were closer and had some formalin to fix that I'd say send it to me.

 

[carol5208]

Those are definitely granulomas and quite possible fungal although you can not rule out bacteria, other fungi, or mycobacteria which are common or other systemic infection. We can say it is definitely infectious. Histolpathology +/- culture is needed to confirm which organism it is. Reptiles don't form liquid abscesses as seen in mammals. Their neutrophils do not contain the same digestive enzymes so instead they get solid abscesses or granulomas. A true granuloma in mammals is primarily macrophages. So while we can tell an abscess from a granuloma in mammals we can't in reptiles. That makes guessing harder to do. The fungus you mentioned has been associated with deaths at a zoo and has been written up here: http://jcm.asm.org/content/48/9/3182.full It would certainly be high on a differential list. That is a good call. Thanks for posting. If you were closer and had some formalin to fix that I'd say send it to me.

So Joevet, you are actually a Veterinarian!!!? I am guessing by your post, the answer is yes!! That is awesome. We have two other vets on here and they both keep(one breeds) chameleons, but they are not on here as often as needed. This is great to have another Vet on board!

 

[JoeVet]

I am a veterinary pathologist. I'm the guy your vet will send samples for diagnostics. I read the slides and can tell what is going on. I do not do reptiles or pets routinely. I am employed in research. Its always a thrill to me to get an actual lesion and I've always liked reptiles, especially chameleons.

 

[carol5208]

oh ok Joe, but you still can be very helpful to the community as you have proven already!

 

[laurie]

I am a veterinary pathologist. I'm the guy your vet will send samples for diagnostics. I read the slides and can tell what is going on. I do not do reptiles or pets routinely. I am employed in research. Its always a thrill to me to get an actual lesion and I've always liked reptiles, especially chameleons.

Carole is correct, we are happy to have you! You are an asset to the forum. But we are aways happy to have new people.