Little bumps...
- Thread starter xoiceox
- Start date
Justin Carl
Avid Member
Picture???
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
Broken (and healed )ribs due to metabolic bone disease. Are you using a good (not all are good) UVB bulb? What about calcium with D3?
These are a very common sign of early/moderate MBD. The ribs are usually very flexible, but when MBD sets in, they become brittle and crack easily. when they heal, they end up looking like that.
If you dont' have some already, get REP-CAL wiht D3, or MINER-ALL with D3 - I wouldn't use anything else, simply because I know these work! Other similar sounding products have uneven records, and many are just worthless.
These are a very common sign of early/moderate MBD. The ribs are usually very flexible, but when MBD sets in, they become brittle and crack easily. when they heal, they end up looking like that.
If you dont' have some already, get REP-CAL wiht D3, or MINER-ALL with D3 - I wouldn't use anything else, simply because I know these work! Other similar sounding products have uneven records, and many are just worthless.
Although these little bumps could be related to MBD they can also have other causes...so I would recommend that you check with a vet before treating it.
"The pseudo-gout (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs."
http://www.all-creatures.com/site/view/79378_Chameleons.pml;jsessionid=4497k8au7kj
"The pseudo-gout (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs."
http://www.all-creatures.com/site/view/79378_Chameleons.pml;jsessionid=4497k8au7kj
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
ah, something I haven't seen yet. Thanks.
It's been my experience that these bumps are associated with MBD. Very interesting. It's again, one of those cases where the symptoms are similar for having too little or too much of a vitamin!
This would likely be the cause if the poster HAS been giving D3.
It's been my experience that these bumps are associated with MBD. Very interesting. It's again, one of those cases where the symptoms are similar for having too little or too much of a vitamin!
This would likely be the cause if the poster HAS been giving D3.
He's so healthy and happy and .. viscious! lol hes ok right?!
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
eric i dont think this is true, i have seen these these bumps on young chameleons that were fed supplemented food about a week after they were born and under ubv lights the day they were born.
xoiceox
New Member
Ok guys im like freaking out for real now and kinda in tears... I'mk paranoid when it comes to all my pets, I want to make sure I'm doing whats best fro him and honestly i trust u guys more than the vet. I love my vet and all, but it's $40 and he's just gonna tell me what u guys say...
So could this really be something serious? What else should I look for??? i'll get more pix
So could this really be something serious? What else should I look for??? i'll get more pix
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
Well, to make matters more confusing, I've seen chameleons raised in the full sun of Florida develop MBD - severe MBD. In fact, the only MBD I've experienced was from babies I ordered from a breeder in florida. they were raised in sunlight.
I recieved them at one month of age and they were big enough to eat 3/4 inch crickets.
I was worried that they might be growing a bit fast, and it was summer, so I raised them with sunlight just about every day. Within a month, they were huge - easily able to eat adult crickets, and then some. At the 2 month mark, they went to jelly - full on MBD. Skulls soft, bowed legs, bumps on the ribs, deformed casque. One recovered fully, and I was able to straighten out her casque. Couldn't tell the difference.
The other was so bad after she "recovered" she was unable to eat. The bones that support her tongue were deformed. It was terrible.
I did some research, and found this was actually common. I spoke to Liddy Kammer, and they'd seen the exact thing. Some breeders will feed their baby veileds so much, they grow too fast for the bones to keep up. Liddy even saw some baby veileds raised outdoors 24/7 come down wiht MBD. They were given access to food round the clock.
In the above case, if the supplements are good (I dont' know that particular brand), I suspect what kinyonga brought up - sounds likely. A good way to check the CURRENT state of the chameleon's bone strength is to try - gently - to wiggle the casque back and forth. If it doesnt' budge, odds are it's fine. If it moves, and it's NOT a growing animal, chances are there's soem calcium issue.
You have to remember, properly caring for these things in such an artificial environment isn't a simple matter. Simply giving supplements and using UVB doesn't mean it'll be fine - you have to ensure it's Good UVB in proper levels, and the supplementation can't be any brand - in fact, I've read labels, and the majority of brands out there simply will not cut it.
They either have too much vitamin A, too low of a Calcium/phosphorus ratio, too little D3, etc. That's why I use 4 different supplements.
One calcium with D3, one calcium without, one multivitamin with preformed A, and one without(herptivite).
I recieved them at one month of age and they were big enough to eat 3/4 inch crickets.
I was worried that they might be growing a bit fast, and it was summer, so I raised them with sunlight just about every day. Within a month, they were huge - easily able to eat adult crickets, and then some. At the 2 month mark, they went to jelly - full on MBD. Skulls soft, bowed legs, bumps on the ribs, deformed casque. One recovered fully, and I was able to straighten out her casque. Couldn't tell the difference.
The other was so bad after she "recovered" she was unable to eat. The bones that support her tongue were deformed. It was terrible.
I did some research, and found this was actually common. I spoke to Liddy Kammer, and they'd seen the exact thing. Some breeders will feed their baby veileds so much, they grow too fast for the bones to keep up. Liddy even saw some baby veileds raised outdoors 24/7 come down wiht MBD. They were given access to food round the clock.
In the above case, if the supplements are good (I dont' know that particular brand), I suspect what kinyonga brought up - sounds likely. A good way to check the CURRENT state of the chameleon's bone strength is to try - gently - to wiggle the casque back and forth. If it doesnt' budge, odds are it's fine. If it moves, and it's NOT a growing animal, chances are there's soem calcium issue.
You have to remember, properly caring for these things in such an artificial environment isn't a simple matter. Simply giving supplements and using UVB doesn't mean it'll be fine - you have to ensure it's Good UVB in proper levels, and the supplementation can't be any brand - in fact, I've read labels, and the majority of brands out there simply will not cut it.
They either have too much vitamin A, too low of a Calcium/phosphorus ratio, too little D3, etc. That's why I use 4 different supplements.
One calcium with D3, one calcium without, one multivitamin with preformed A, and one without(herptivite).
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
What is the exact type of vitamin and mineral supplement you're using, and what brand name bulb are you using? That'll help.
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
There's a potential issue - reptivite. It's a multivitamin, right? I used reptivite, and if the formula is the same, it's not adequate by itself. It doesn't (well, it DIDN'T) contain the proper balance of vitamis and minerals. Ulness they've completely changed it, you'll need more than that.
Also, I dont' know what the output of that UVB bulb is - get a zoomed 10.0 or 5.0 tube - they are MUCH better. Many of the other brands don't really do much for the animal at a significant distance from the bulb.
Does your reptivite have a lost of the contents? If so, how much vitamin A, D3, phosphorous and calcium does it contain?
Also, I dont' know what the output of that UVB bulb is - get a zoomed 10.0 or 5.0 tube - they are MUCH better. Many of the other brands don't really do much for the animal at a significant distance from the bulb.
Does your reptivite have a lost of the contents? If so, how much vitamin A, D3, phosphorous and calcium does it contain?
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
No, you should be using a UVB bulb for the day time, and when you dust, use a phosphorous-free calcium supplement WITH D3. now, you probably shouldnt dust every day. Depends on age and size.
I think th eUVB bulbs have people a bit confused sometimes. Their power isnt' really strong, and is not a substitute for the sun. UVB bulbs alone are not good enough. You need to give the animal a proper balance of nutrients. The wrong balance, and all the UVB in the world isn't going to do much good.
You need proper amounts of vitamin A and D3, and a proper calcium to phosphorous ratio. If your supplement has improper levels, you will have problems. The main issue is phosphorous. Many brands have too much phosphorous.
I think th eUVB bulbs have people a bit confused sometimes. Their power isnt' really strong, and is not a substitute for the sun. UVB bulbs alone are not good enough. You need to give the animal a proper balance of nutrients. The wrong balance, and all the UVB in the world isn't going to do much good.
You need proper amounts of vitamin A and D3, and a proper calcium to phosphorous ratio. If your supplement has improper levels, you will have problems. The main issue is phosphorous. Many brands have too much phosphorous.
