grumpymedic
New Member
I know most captive Panthers live 5-7 years, does anybody know how long they live in the wild? What can we do to help them live longer in captivity? Thanks for your input 
Lifespan of Panther Chameleons in the wild?
- Thread starter grumpymedic
- Start date
nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
They live longer in cap. In the wild its grow as fast as you can, breed as much as you can, and then die off so the next gen doesnt have to compete. They are not the slow grower types that have several years of "production".
fluxlizard
Avid Member
Yes, panthers are 1-2 year lifespans in the wild.
We are already outdoing natural conditions, but certainly longer and longer lifespans are a goal to aim for.
We are already outdoing natural conditions, but certainly longer and longer lifespans are a goal to aim for.
andred82vert
New Member
i've never been to madagascar, but i'm sure these chams have natural predators over there. That alone would lower their life spans in the wild.
grumpymedic
New Member
Wow I never thought they would have a longer lifespan in captivity. Kinda makes me feel better knowing we are actually helping them live longer. Thanks for the education
djfishygillz
Avid Member
Wow I never thought they would have a longer lifespan in captivity. Kinda makes me feel better knowing we are actually helping them live longer. Thanks for the education
There's some people out there who haven't a clue on care and housing them in inhumane conditions so its our job to educate the public on them
Dr O
Veterinarian
two years has been deemed average for panthers, but I truly don't understand why it's even that long. I'm specifically referring to nights when they are exposed, much lighter in color (typically), and usually squinch their eyes shut even tighter if you try and move them or wake them up. I just cannot believe that a nocturnal predator never evolved loooong ago that didn't just gobble these up, particularly as small juveniles. I really have never been able to come to terms with that. as far as I'm concerned, they should have been extinct millions of years ago with those behaviors!
snakes, birds, spiders, insects, lizards, small mammals......it just seems so easy to pick them off at night. just a few nights ago I was able to get my first accurate hatchling count since they were all immobile and standing out from their cage decor so much. it's impossible to do that during the day.
snakes, birds, spiders, insects, lizards, small mammals......it just seems so easy to pick them off at night. just a few nights ago I was able to get my first accurate hatchling count since they were all immobile and standing out from their cage decor so much. it's impossible to do that during the day.
fluxlizard
Avid Member
Probably-
Most chameleons have very short lifespans in the wild. Some are even seasonal lifespans. Read something not long ago about a species that spent most of it's life in the egg incubating for most of a year, and the adults were nearly 100% dead shortly after the next generation of eggs was in the ground incubating for the following year.
If you are looking for long natural lifespans, you are probably better off looking into giant chameleons (melleri, oustalets, parsons) and montaine species which tend to have a lower reproductive rate. The heat loving high reproductive rate species that grow quickly - such as veileds- probably all have pretty short natural lifespans.
Honestly- a well cared for lizard of any kind often outlives it's wild counterpart. By a lot. Not only chameleons- Wild iguanas for example have very high mortality rates- most are dead by the time they turn 1 (something like upper 90 percentage) of those that remain, they steadily continue to die off until by age 7 they are all dead. Captive iguanas can very often double that and a few owners claim iguanas living past 20 years.
With chameleons a large part of their decline in the wild is parasites and environmental conditions. But especially parasites. I remember when panthers came in unlimited quantity in the first part of the 90s- there were times of the year you just didn't want to buy a wild panther because they were all loaded with parasites. And not just tiny things in the gut but great nasty monster looking worms coiled beneath the skin that had to be removed with an incision. And when we are talking about wild lifespan we are talking about the survivors that actually make it to adulthood. Like the iguanas- most chameleons never live to make it that far. For warm loving fast growing high reproductive rate species- only a few percent tops. The rest are eaten by predators, starve or thirst to death, have accidents, and are taken by disease and parasites. Nature isn't pretty sometimes. The ones that live a year or two are the very lucky ones and represent only a tiny percentage of the total that were born.
So, when I look at most of my lizards, I am thinking to myself- my gosh- most of these wouldn't even be alive had they been born in the wild. Very few. And then after I've had them a few years- almost certainly none would still be alive if they were wild.
Of course, I mentioned "well cared for" as one of the qualifiers earlier for captive lifespan. Part of the problem with your question is that "well cared for" is relatively uncommon. Though it seems to be improving. Here on the forums for example- we see people coming for help that really don't understand good husbandry yet.
The question I have for you is why is longevity something we desire above everything else in life? For example- is longer life in a terrarium better than shorter life in the wild? If wild life is better, how short would the lifespan have to be before the terrarium is better? A year? A month? A week? What kind of death in the wild is preferable to death in a terrarium? If a wild lizard will die at 5 months of age by parasite infestation is that preferable to death by ignorant terrarium owner at 5 months and is that preferable to death by being chewed up at 5 months of age by an adult of it's own species in the wild? Is it better for a chameleon to die at the old age of 2 while still strong and healthy feeling by the quick death of terrifying predation or at age 8 by slow decline lasting months and eventual system crash of some kind in captivity? Some extend chameleon lifespan by denying the lizard it's choice of metabolic rate by restricting availability of warmth- is that kind of life better than one that allows self-satisfaction? Well, obviously things can be taken to extremes- you can allow a pet self-satisfaction and it will eat itself to death by obesity for example. Like so many things in life- a lot of these questions aren't black and white.
Your original question sort of reflects black and white thinking. It isn't so simple as that.
Most chameleons have very short lifespans in the wild. Some are even seasonal lifespans. Read something not long ago about a species that spent most of it's life in the egg incubating for most of a year, and the adults were nearly 100% dead shortly after the next generation of eggs was in the ground incubating for the following year.
If you are looking for long natural lifespans, you are probably better off looking into giant chameleons (melleri, oustalets, parsons) and montaine species which tend to have a lower reproductive rate. The heat loving high reproductive rate species that grow quickly - such as veileds- probably all have pretty short natural lifespans.
Honestly- a well cared for lizard of any kind often outlives it's wild counterpart. By a lot. Not only chameleons- Wild iguanas for example have very high mortality rates- most are dead by the time they turn 1 (something like upper 90 percentage) of those that remain, they steadily continue to die off until by age 7 they are all dead. Captive iguanas can very often double that and a few owners claim iguanas living past 20 years.
With chameleons a large part of their decline in the wild is parasites and environmental conditions. But especially parasites. I remember when panthers came in unlimited quantity in the first part of the 90s- there were times of the year you just didn't want to buy a wild panther because they were all loaded with parasites. And not just tiny things in the gut but great nasty monster looking worms coiled beneath the skin that had to be removed with an incision. And when we are talking about wild lifespan we are talking about the survivors that actually make it to adulthood. Like the iguanas- most chameleons never live to make it that far. For warm loving fast growing high reproductive rate species- only a few percent tops. The rest are eaten by predators, starve or thirst to death, have accidents, and are taken by disease and parasites. Nature isn't pretty sometimes. The ones that live a year or two are the very lucky ones and represent only a tiny percentage of the total that were born.
So, when I look at most of my lizards, I am thinking to myself- my gosh- most of these wouldn't even be alive had they been born in the wild. Very few. And then after I've had them a few years- almost certainly none would still be alive if they were wild.
Of course, I mentioned "well cared for" as one of the qualifiers earlier for captive lifespan. Part of the problem with your question is that "well cared for" is relatively uncommon. Though it seems to be improving. Here on the forums for example- we see people coming for help that really don't understand good husbandry yet.
The question I have for you is why is longevity something we desire above everything else in life? For example- is longer life in a terrarium better than shorter life in the wild? If wild life is better, how short would the lifespan have to be before the terrarium is better? A year? A month? A week? What kind of death in the wild is preferable to death in a terrarium? If a wild lizard will die at 5 months of age by parasite infestation is that preferable to death by ignorant terrarium owner at 5 months and is that preferable to death by being chewed up at 5 months of age by an adult of it's own species in the wild? Is it better for a chameleon to die at the old age of 2 while still strong and healthy feeling by the quick death of terrifying predation or at age 8 by slow decline lasting months and eventual system crash of some kind in captivity? Some extend chameleon lifespan by denying the lizard it's choice of metabolic rate by restricting availability of warmth- is that kind of life better than one that allows self-satisfaction? Well, obviously things can be taken to extremes- you can allow a pet self-satisfaction and it will eat itself to death by obesity for example. Like so many things in life- a lot of these questions aren't black and white.
Your original question sort of reflects black and white thinking. It isn't so simple as that.
Last edited:
nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
How about wild bearded dragons were you can just wake up at 6am, put a bunch in a basket, and take them to market.
