Lets talk Quarantine

[jojackson]

One thing I've noticed since Ive been here, is the apparent total lack of quarantine with new animals. I see photo threads 'my new addition' etc, quite often showing the new cham in a cage right next to existing animals.
I know some folk have said, scrub the cage before a new one, after an animal dies, but nobody advises quarantine. Why not?

I would have thought it especially important with species that are imported.
I imagine they are held with many others, before heading to various petstore destinations etc. The risk of disease must be good.

I want to know if there is a compulsary quarantine period for herp fauna imported to the states, and who if any of you actually quarantine new arrivals, be they chameleons or other herps.

 

[dodolah]

I actually quarantine my new arrivals for about a month before introducing them into the reptile room.

 

[jannb]

There's been a thread on here before about this: https://www.chameleonforums.com/quarantine-those-show-animals-15636/

 

[kinyonga]

It doesn't matter if its CB or WC or even a LTC that you get, its important to quarantine a new-to-your-home critter IMHO.

If its been in a petstore or at a reptile store, it could have been handled by people who have not bothered to wash their hands in between handling different reptiles (some even WC's) while at the store or the show. Petstore/show employees could have handled more than one reptile without washing their hands in between. Even if its from a breeder (unless you know the breeder or his/her reputation) the reptile could have been handled without proper hygiene practices.

I quarantine them for several months...and even then it can sometimes be a risk when you move a new one into an area where you have your previously acquired reptiles.

While they are in quarantine, I look after my "older" reptiles first and then do the "new arrivals"...and then I also don't go back into the "older" ones' room again. I don't use equipment from my "older" reptiles on the new ones and then on the "older" ones again.

Even when I work with my "older" ones, I wash my hands when moving from one cage to the next.

BTW...I don't know if there are regulations in the States about having to quarantine new arrivals.

Just my 2 cent worth...

 

[Pure]

I QT any and all new animals. The only reason I put the Melleri in the same room as my veiled, is they had basically been in a 5 month QT with the previous owner. Still, the veiled's cage is all the way on the other side of the room.

I became very strict to the practice of QTing animals when I had some wild angels (fish) come in on a shipment I imported. They were carrying the angel plaque. Nearly wiped out my entire fish room.

BTW...I don't know if there are regulations in the States about having to quarantine new arrivals.

No there isn't and people who do normally charge a higher price for that animal.

Edit: This site is a good example. http://www.exoticfinds.net/firstplecopage.html Blue QTs all his fish and if you buy from him you know you are going to pay more, sometimes more than others depending on the species. But IMO it's worth it. Especially when dealing with wild caught animals.

 

[jojackson]

Intresting. Jann, thats more about coccidia drugs than quarantine proceedure.

this one https://www.chameleonforums.com/quarantining-animal-25067/ touches on it very breifly and surprising I found little else.

One point, a month, dosent seem to be a very long period for some diseases to become apparent, we are talking reptiles afterall, unless a problem is advanced some to begin with, you may not see symptoms at all.
Its important to understand that reptiles can carry disease for long periods before symptoms become apparent, the animal may not even appear sick, let alone drop dead.

Nor does 'the other side of the room' seem sufficient to prevent the spread of disease,
There is so much we dont yet know about herp diseases, viral types especially.
I wonder how many folk are as careful with hygene practices as you Kinyongia?
very very few I expect.

It rather disturbs me that quarantine is never mentioned to new keepers. Homer is still effectively quarantined 6 months in.

If indeed there is no compulsary quarantine of fauna entering the country, I find it bizzare that your authorities are so concerned with invasive species, pythons in the glades etc etc. Introduced Disease is just as likely to effect native species imo as escaped exotics themselves.

For example, look up IBD Inclusion body disease and similar in snakes. Who knows what kinds of disease may be lurking in lizard species also, even chams.
Since diseases, especially virals, can mutate, a lack of quarantine can be a ticking bomb.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

That is what I wrote this for.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/new-arrival-bringing-home-25076/

I can add some more about quarantine. I just touch on it in the beginning.

 

[dodolah]

If indeed there is no compulsary quarantine of fauna entering the country, I find it bizzare that your authorities are so concerned with invasive species, pythons in the glades etc etc. Introduced Disease is just as likely to effect native species imo as escaped exotics themselves.

I always thought US quarantine their animals (I know Indonesia does -at least in theory.. ).
I agree with your thoughts.
I have to admit, I did not practice 6 months quarantine period for new arrivals. Generally, for CB from a trusted breeder, I tend to be lenient.. (which i rpobably shouldn't since my last incident).
I never buy WC and If I do, i probably be extremely careful in the process.

And, all my chameleons have their own furniture and equipment. None shares anything (All plants are labeled as well).
I generally waste many gloves as I use separate gloves for each cage.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jo and others

Before I add my 3 cents (I have learned much since I knew only 2 cents) can you tell me what "diseases", viruses, etc that you are concerned about controlling? I am not concerned about non-chameleon species, such as IBD in boids, but rather what diseases you are aware of, or read about, that may propagate from one captive chameleon to another. I realize that some may espouse something such as a quarantine for six months in a separate room, or other such measures. That is their prerogative. What I want to know is what the pathogens are that we are guarding against, and then what members may feel is the appropriate control against the spread of those pathogens. I think that far more valuble than any advice to maintain some level of quarantine for safety's sake, without knowing what we know !

For the record, I have a pretty good knowledge base of what the reality of communicable pathogens are in chameleons, and what appropriate quarantines are. I also see that knowledge somewhat at odds with opinions voiced here. So, if you do not mind, someone tell me what and why !! Thanks.

 

[Chameleon Company]

For example ...

Nor does 'the other side of the room' seem sufficient to prevent the spread of disease

Can you cite an internet resource where a chameleon disease has been shown to spread from "the other side of the room", at least where the proximity was the cause ?

 

[jojackson]

Excellent Ryan, Particularly the section titled "Preventing Re-infection and Cross Contamination"

Imo that should be among the ABC's pushed by the kittyblog fans, and linked in the big questionaire 'read this' etc.
Just as important as correct husbandry, infact, a major part of it, too often overlooked.
If somebody has their animal they just bought in a glass or innappropriate cage with sand, waterbowl etc etc, chances are they never dreamed of standard hygene practices either.

Before I add my 3 cents (I have learned much since I knew only 2 cents) can you tell me what "diseases", viruses, etc that you are concerned about controlling?
I am not concerned about non-chameleon species, such as IBD in boids, but rather what diseases you are aware of, or read about, that may propagate from one captive chameleon to another.

The ones your not expecting! The ones you dont discover till your vet does!
Its the ones you havent read about that you aim to prevent. Who says IBD is only excusive to boids? Ive read of tree snakes (colubridae) exhibiting the same symptoms and dying shortly after.
Since the means to test for it are not avail here its not conclusive. The point is ,viral type disease can and does mutate, and cross barriers. Its all about prevention.

Can you cite an internet resource where a chameleon disease has been shown to spread from "the other side of the room", at least where the proximity was the cause ?

Proximity alone may not be the cause of disease spreading, but coupled with a lack of sufficient hygeine practice and its a recipe for disaster.
Again, prevention is better than cure.

 

[Pure]

I always thought US quarantine their animals (I know Indonesia does -at least in theory.. ).
I agree with your thoughts.
I have to admit, I did not practice 6 months quarantine period for new arrivals. Generally, for CB from a trusted breeder, I tend to be lenient.. (which i rpobably shouldn't since my last incident).
I never buy WC and If I do, i probably be extremely careful in the process.

And, all my chameleons have their own furniture and equipment. None shares anything (All plants are labeled as well).
I generally waste many gloves as I use separate gloves for each cage.

If I remember correctly, any "private" animal bought over seas, then brought back to the US with the owner Joe Public. Yes that animal goes through a 6 month QT. This rule is in effect for all animals, so do not take your poodle to Europe with you. But wild imports are either not QTed at all or if they do..it isn't very long. I doubt a wild Cham would make it in a QT for a month let alone 6. Especially after the rough treatment and total lack of care during shipping. I do know for a fact, Tropical fish are not QTed in any way. Those I have imported.

Someone PM Mike or any other Cham importer. I bet they can give a definite answer.

 

[jojackson]

LOl. If i want to bring my pet lizard to the states theres a 6 mth Quarantine, but if I want to import 300 from somewhere into the states, no problem buddy, take em home?
Only in America!

Surely this cant be right can it? Is the CDC in Atlanta only concerned with human diseases?

 

[Pure]

Deductive reasoning says it is right. If chams, among others were QTed, we would have little to no losses as private keepers as the wild animals would have been through the roughest part of acclimation. I also can't see a fish and game officer/worker giving 300 Melleri 2 30 minute showers a day. If they were QTed like this, there would be little to no stigma about them being a 90 day animal. Same holds true for Jacksons, etc, etc.

 

[jojackson]

Thats makes economical sense atleast. What about other reptile species? Birds?

 

[Chameleon Company]

The ones your not expecting! The ones you dont discover till your vet does!
Its the ones you havent read about that you aim to prevent. Who says IBD is only excusive to boids? Ive read of tree snakes (colubridae) exhibiting the same symptoms and dying shortly after.
Since the means to test for it are not avail here its not conclusive. The point is ,viral type disease can and does mutate, and cross barriers. Its all about prevention.

Jo. As I have been importing for a decade, raising CB and WC animals in proximity for a decade, might I add that my concern is not for "the ones that I have not read about", but more importantly for those that I have experienced, and then what are prudent quarantines to follow. Is the answer that no one here knows ? Or if they do, what is the appropriate quarantine and why ? There's quite a spread between not wanting to mix WC's with direct contact with the rest of your animals, avoiding communal caging, breeding, etc, and the recommendation to keep them apart, in separate rooms, whatever, for months. I am looking for someone to help identify/define the problem before offering a solution. If all one can offer is phantom viruses, then "thanks but no thanks".

Since most of us, to include many of my customers, want to allow communal contact at some point with their chameleons, or may buy an animal to replace one lost and need to use the same cage over again, I was hoping that an advice giver could identify the problem which then supported their solution. I'm talking chameleons, btw, not tree snakes. Thanks in advance.

 

[jojackson]

So what your saying is, to hell with preventative caution, it might cost me money.
Ill wait till I do hear of a new disease spreading like wildfire among my competitors?
Im sure atleast Hygene practices is not above your bottom line?

 

[Pure]

So I'll take that as confirmation that they are not QTed by the government?

 

[dodolah]

I admit that when I quarantine my new arrivals (All of them are CBs so far), one thing I worry the most is parasites (So, I put him in a special room, have it tested, then treat it if the vet found traces of parasites before introducing him into the room with the rest of my collections).

I am more lenient toward CBs and I only buy from people whom I trust practicing a good hygiene practice and would not knowingly sell chameleon loaded with parasites.

I q'd my animals 1 month.
with one exception, when I bought a baby ambanja from a breeder only to find out that it was loaded heavily with coccidia.
He stay isolated until his fecal are clean (thanks to ponazuril).
I did not count the days.. But, i am sure as heck that it was longer than a month.

 

[Chameleon Company]

So what your saying is, to hell with preventative caution, it might cost me money.
Ill wait till I do hear of a new disease spreading like wildfire among my competitors?
Im sure atleast Hygene practices is not above your bottom line?

LOL ... could you show me where I said anything remotely close to that ? What I am advocating, and soliciting, is knowledge about the problem, and then how it is linked to solutions. Trust that I know of which I speak.

For instance, this by Dodolah shows a very reasoned and knowledgable approach, IMMHO:

I admit that when I quarantine my new arrivals (All of them are CBs so far), one thing I worry the most is parasites (So, I put him in a special room, have it tested, then treat it if the vet found traces of parasites before introducing him into the room with the rest of my collections)......

...... coccidia.....

..... He stay isolated until his fecal are clean (thanks to ponazuril).

I think that I am saying "to hell" with knee-jerk advice and keyboard happy fingers.