Let there be RAIN

[nick barta]

I am ready to activate my misting system (can't beleive how long it took to get all the parts). I have a Promist 60 pump, and Mistking nozzles. I have the inline heater Dave Weldon recommended in his thread, so the mist will be warmer than room temperature,
Although I have a water collection pan under each of the 6 cages, I would like to mist long enough to meet the Chams needs (I can increase and decrease the flow per cage by species), but still have the cage plants and floor dry out between mistings. In the ideal world, I would like my water collection pans to be dried out between mistings, if that is possible.
If I need to "think more like a monsoon when watering your Chameleons" I have no problem doing that, I am open to hearing all points of view. After reading watering threads, my initial direction is to mist just after the lights activate, perhaps 2 more times in the day, and a final before lights out.
Will 20 minutes give enough misting time to activate drinking, and will 20 minutes of mist begin to fill my collection trays?

Thanks in advance, and especially to Dave Weldon who walked me through this process.

Nick Barta

 

[dodolah]

Nick, for 20 minutes misting time, you will get an overflow of water.
You'll b surprised how much water that misting system can spray within 5 minutes time.
So, you will need a good drainage system.
I drill the PVC bottom, use the weight of the plant to make the water go to the holes and below the cage is a big container to catch that all that water.
Instead of a pan, think more in a term of a bucket

Some might disagree on providing water that much to your panther or veiled.
2 times 20 minutes each is ok to me. I am for one believe that it is better to over water than to under water (I can feel couple of people are itching to respond to this. and, yes I know that chameleon is not fish ).

If i am not mistaken, Dave water his chameleon 30 minutes per session (Please correct me if i am wrong, Dave).

I myself mist 4 times. 5 minutes each session.
Here is a shot of my setup.

I use Hydor inline heater as well.

I am ready to activate my misting system (can't beleive how long it took to get all the parts). I have a Promist 60 pump, and Mistking nozzles. I have the inline heater Dave Weldon recommended in his thread, so the mist will be warmer than room temperature,
Although I have a water collection pan under each of the 6 cages, I would like to mist long enough to meet the Chams needs (I can increase and decrease the flow per cage by species), but still have the cage plants and floor dry out between mistings. In the ideal world, I would like my water collection pans to be dried out between mistings, if that is possible.
If I need to "think more like a monsoon when watering your Chameleons" I have no problem doing that, I am open to hearing all points of view. After reading watering threads, my initial direction is to mist just after the lights activate, perhaps 2 more times in the day, and a final before lights out.
Will 20 minutes give enough misting time to activate drinking, and will 20 minutes of mist begin to fill my collection trays?

Thanks in advance, and especially to Dave Weldon who walked me through this process.

Nick Barta

 

[OntarioLizardman]

wow that looks great. i need to get one of those systems

 

[nick barta]

Thanks for the response. I will try your system of 4-5 minute sessions. My water collection trays service two 24"x24" cages, and have a bulkhead plumbed in one end so I can PVC pipe it to a bucket. Off to Home Depot I go (again)!!

 

[jojackson]

Are you folk saying you actually stand there pumping a spray bottle for 20 mins, whatever? I think my hand would seize up! Wonder if theres any reported cases of carpal tunnel syndrome, or RSI among cham keepers?
Gotta be a better way to make it 'rain'. for periods of time, modified garden sprinkler on timer?
I mist for a minute or so, just to cover froilege with droplets a few times a day. The dripper runs all day anyway and I know he drinks copiously from it.
Seems to me, no yemen would experience such 'wet-tropic' saturation/humidity so constantly in the wild, and that they would tend to drink when it rains and primarily in the morning when dew forms.
Im sure its a different story in Madagascar (other species) but how often does it actually rain in the wadi's of yemen?

dodolah, whats the material on your cage floors? something like melamine?

 

[pikebomb]

Nick, for 20 minutes misting time, you will get an overflow of water.
You'll b surprised how much water that misting system can spray within 5 minutes time.
So, you will need a good drainage system.
I drill the PVC bottom, use the weight of the plant to make the water go to the holes and below the cage is a big container to catch that all that water.
Instead of a pan, think more in a term of a bucket

Some might disagree on providing water that much to your panther or veiled.
2 times 20 minutes each is ok to me. I am for one believe that it is better to over water than to under water (I can feel couple of people are itching to respond to this. and, yes I know that chameleon is not fish ).

If i am not mistaken, Dave water his chameleon 30 minutes per session (Please correct me if i am wrong, Dave).

I myself mist 4 times. 5 minutes each session.
Here is a shot of my setup.

I use Hydor inline heater as well.

Do you mean that you leave the mister on for 5 minutes at a time 4 times a day?

 

[dodolah]

yes. 4 times misting.
5 minutes each misting.
the floor is PVC foam.
under the big cage is plastic.
It is also drilled for drainage.

I have some areas that remain completely dry regardless of misting.
my veiled can choose to go to dry areas if he does not like to be misted.

As far as water amount, I do admit I gave my veiled opportunity to drink more than others. Like i said, My personal opinion is better to over water than to under water.

So far, no problems.. 2 years of his life, he has no RI, no fungal infection, etc etc.
I don't use dripper, btw.

 

[Chameleon Company]

My personal opinion is better to over water than to under water.

Give that comment a gold star ! Of course, one must eliminate pooling of water to minimize bacteria, have good ventilation and air movement so as to dry out most of the cage at least once daily (to avoid skin fungus and other maladies), and have perching areas that are plain wood, and not plastic, to insure the wicking away of water (literally, to avoid the chameleon version of "athlete's foot"). All that said, "over-watering" is a vital key to success. Smart cage design begins with a good plan for water management, and all else "flows" from that (nice pun, eh ? ).

 

[Chameleon Company]

i.e.

When I stated that wood perches are to "wick away water", I realized it may have not conveyed the full thought. Water must be wicked away from the chameleons foot pads as it sleeps. If a chameleon perches on plastic, and moisture is present between its feet and the plastic that does not absorb into the wood, the chameleon will develop fungal infections there. Painted wood or painted bamboo is not recommended. Outside branches, plain bamboo, etc., are fine. Bio-vine sucks. I used to recommend rubber coated wire years ago ... I sucked ! Chameleons thus afflicted can be cured with a common anti-fungal spray or cream, as we would on our feet, but the situation that caused it must be eliminated.

 

[laurie]

When I stated that wood perches are to "wick away water", I realized it may have not conveyed the full thought. Water must be wicked away from the chameleons foot pads as it sleeps. If a chameleon perches on plastic, and moisture is present between its feet and the plastic that does not absorb into the wood, the chameleon will develop fungal infections there. Painted wood or painted bamboo is not recommended. Outside branches, plain bamboo, etc., are fine. Bio-vine sucks. I used to recommend rubber coated wire years ago ... I sucked ! Chameleons thus afflicted can be cured with a common anti-fungal spray or cream, as we would on our feet, but the situation that caused it must be eliminated.

I have bio vines in all my cages, the chams love thembut if they are really bad for them I will take them out. Do you think I should remove them? They haven't caused a problem so far.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Laurie,

No, I would not remove them if I were you, as you have not had problems, but are now also aware of what to watch for. Depending on how they are used, they are in the realm of synthetic perches, which, also depending on watering schedule, may pose a problem. Fungal lesions can occur on your chameleons foot pads due to moisture there that is not drawn away while it sleeps. Real sticks and branches do not cause this problem, while synthetics and painted wood are more prone to. I first started hearing of problems regarding bio-vine 5-7 years ago, as well as problems with other synthetics, some which I experienced first-hand. As we have lots of chameleons, we see such problems in quantity when its systemic, which is an advantage when it comes to finding the cause. In the future, I recommend such as dried grape vines, often available where supplies are sold to make Christmas wreaths, and other natural products, like a branch from your yard.

Always rolled my eyes just a bit at the product name "Bio-Vine" .... Them and "natural" waterfalls.

 

[nick barta]

Jim,

Thanks for the info on perches, never wouuld have thought about athletes foot for Chams! As a rule, 1) how long should we mist for, and 2) how many times a day to trigger adequate water intake? BTW, My Oustalets female is growing fast. Nice temperment.

Nick Barta

 

[Chameleon Company]

Nick,

Wish I could give you duration and frequency components measured by time, but I've always been more of a "this is what you want to accomplish ... this is what you want to avoid" issue dodger . Its going to vary depending on how you are set up. We recommend that whatever you do, it presents a drinking opportunity that lasts for 30 minutes or more, twice a day for indoor chameleons. Not that the animal needs to drink for 30 minutes, but that it will get its fill within that time-frame. This is especially true of skittish animals that are loathe to expose themselves, etc. This could be accomplished by soaking everything for 5 minutes, such that large droplets are still in abundance 30 minutes later, or setting a slow drip in one spot that drips at a rate of about 1 drop per second for 30 minutes, which is less than a half cup of water. As noted earlier, always better to go over than under. A drip in one spot will course down through a plant creating several drink points, where the animal does not need to move around much to get its fill. I think that it is a far more effective and manageable technique than most misters provide, and have never been a proponent of any mister, as it puts much more water into the cage than a drip, and cannot be as easily managed. We have a greenhouse, essentially "all outdoor, all the time", so we can soak things good in the AM with overhead nozzles, like rain, then have it all dry out within a couple of hours as outside air is pulled through the greenhouse to cool it as the day warms. I do not have to deal with water management as someone with an indoor cage, floors to protect, etc., does (I used to though ). Like so much else involving good husbandry, its about giving the critter the proper range of options to choose from, and then let it do its thing. Good luck.

 

[ciafardo 4]

Hey jim what do you think of this business of baking wood in the oven i just cut a wild grape vine i dont know if thats the proper name but i know it grows little grapes in the summer anyway i was setting up a new mellers enclosure i went out back cut about 12 ft of the vine and put it right in its about 15f out there when i did this if i did it in the summer i wood have washed it but baking it come on.

 

[Chuck G]

Hey jim what do you think of this business of baking wood in the oven i just cut a wild grape vine i dont know if thats the proper name but i know it grows little grapes in the summer anyway i was setting up a new mellers enclosure i went out back cut about 12 ft of the vine and put it right in its about 15f out there when i did this if i did it in the summer i wood have washed it but baking it come on.

Bake it! You lazy bastard!

 

[Chameleon Company]

Cia

... got me laughing, although certainly not at you, and probably more at myself. I'm assuming that you are not asking for my thoughts on going into business as a seller of baked grapewood

In using branches, vines, etc., from your local "out-of-doors", I believe the only real concern would be if it had been sprayed with something to control pests. In which case, it could be soaked for a bit, washed, etc. As to being worried about tiny harmful insects, there really aren't any to worry about. Down here we worry about fire ants, black widows, etc, but in the event we had them on some stick chosen for a cage, they can be hosed off. However, there is no harm, providing the missus approves, in baking a branch. In some cases, it may make some things more sturdy and rigid. I have also seen very practical uses made of bamboo stakes (unpainted) from major garden stores (Home Depot, Lowes), cut and glued with a hot glue gun, that were low cost and effective.

Again, referring to our greenhouse, but it is essentailly an out-doors environment when it comes to bugs, cause we can't keep them out. We have to manage heavily to keep fire ants and widows at bay, which can be a scourge to hatchling and young chameleons, but all the other stuff we couldn't hope to control. I often hear people refer to avoiding "wild wood" because of potential harmful parasites, but have always been left asking myself "what harmful parasites" ? Or "remove the bark so the chameleon can't eat it", when bark chewing and eating is a normal behavior in chameleons. I am not recommending you put loco-weed, creosote bush, or poison ivy in the cage, or some sappy wood such as fresh pine. "Better safe than sorry" is still a valid reason, but sometimes am still left to wonder

 

[ciafardo 4]

... got me laughing, although certainly not at you, and probably more at myself. I'm assuming that you are not asking for my thoughts on going into business as a seller of baked grapewood

In using branches, vines, etc., from your local "out-of-doors", I believe the only real concern would be if it had been sprayed with something to control pests. In which case, it could be soaked for a bit, washed, etc. As to being worried about tiny harmful insects, there really aren't any to worry about. Down here we worry about fire ants, black widows, etc, but in the event we had them on some stick chosen for a cage, they can be hosed off. However, there is no harm, providing the missus approves, in baking a branch. In some cases, it may make some things more sturdy and rigid. I have also seen very practical uses made of bamboo stakes (unpainted) from major garden stores (Home Depot, Lowes), cut and glued with a hot glue gun, that were low cost and effective.

Again, referring to our greenhouse, but it is essentailly an out-doors environment when it comes to bugs, cause we can't keep them out. We have to manage heavily to keep fire ants and widows at bay, which can be a scourge to hatchling and young chameleons, but all the other stuff we couldn't hope to control. I often hear people refer to avoiding "wild wood" because of potential harmful parasites, but have always been left asking myself "what harmful parasites" ? Or "remove the bark so the chameleon can't eat it", when bark chewing and eating is a normal behavior in chameleons. I am not recommending you put loco-weed, creosote bush, or poison ivy in the cage, or some sappy wood such as fresh pine. "Better safe than sorry" is still a valid reason, but sometimes am still left to wonder

thank you sir some of these guys on here been smokin loco weed with all this craziness its like a sewing circle where they just trade crazy back and forth and givin your time and expierience i believe people will listen to you before me . i have read that some are on here boiling tap water thats a whole nother can of crazy i dont even want to oppen.

 

[ciafardo 4]

Bake it! You lazy bastard!

aint got time to busy bakin cookies for you chucky ding ding oh gotta go your cookies are ready

 

[Chuck G]

aint got time to busy bakin cookies for you chucky ding ding oh gotta go your cookies are ready

I have a couple of good recipes! mmmm I like cookies!