Left eye closed/Vet Proposed Surgery
- Thread starter moviemanmania
- Start date
moviemanmania
Avid Member
Thanks guys. Just got back from the two hours of driving to get the new med. Woke him up and gave him a dose and sent him back to bed. Tomorrow I think I will make some bug juice and feed him some since he hasn't eaten in almost two weeks now.
moviemanmania
Avid Member
Oh yes, that's the first thing I reach for anytime I think there is an issue going on.
OldChamKeeper
Chameleon Enthusiast
I wish I had seen this topic sooner. Sorry about that.
I've dealt with similar symptoms over the years, fortunately only a handful.
I highly doubt your little buddy will make it at this point, but I'll share what I would do at the stage he seems to be at. Please keep in mind I am not a Vet, I am just a fool who has been keeping Chams for 35 yrs as a simple personal hobby, never went professional, has worked in the Pet Industry, and like you never gives up on a sick Cham.
So a few things I hope may be of help to you.
- Mader was great when he was out here in California, if you could get some help from him it would be nice but like somebody else said already...the guy is freaking busy.
- Dr Greek, solid guy. Haven't met him in person since I haven't needed a vet visit in about 10 yrs but all my friends and the herp stores I use say he is the go to guy out here now.
Now back to Chams.....
Anytime a Cham goes off feed for 7 days, make that bug juice. I usually mix in 1/3 gatorade for hydration purposes. You don't need to fill the belly, just keep some small amounts of food in there so always go with small amounts. Keep the temps on the low side for the given species to help avoid dehydration during an illness. That's just personal observation over the years. I've helped with a number of sick herps over the years and with Chams, I found the ones that pulled through are the ones I kept in the lower day temp range, the idea of being sick and they need to be kept nice and warm is over rated when you consider dehydration. I'm not saying chill them, I'm saying if the species likes 82-90F then keep it around 82F is all.
Next, they need the hydration daily. Sometimes just a few drops will do it so don't go overboard. Some would say you'll stress it and kill it, however any sick animal that dehydrates dies too. Any sick Cham is a gamble, the trick is knowing your animal well enough to make the choice.
Based on what you described, the eye doesn't need to be removed, sounds like a systemic infection, also dehydration results in those eyes becoming sunken. Your best bet since you had the lab work done is to use the meds given. I would have asked for an oral version and avoided the injectable which in many cases can be done. Sticking chams is a bad choice unless you are dealing with one of the true giants and even then when I had a sick Parsonii, it was oral meds.
I am not trying to be the prick with bad news, however the average cham that gets to the point you seem to be at doesn't make it. Should you give up on the hobby? No. You clearly care for and appreciate these animals. People like you need to stay in the hobby. If he doesn't make it, dust yourself off and apply your experience to the rest of your chams. The school of Hard Knocks is what all of us go through if we are in this hobby for a long period of time. The end result is over time you find your animals are healthy and you yourself are less stressed.
Last bit of info, the dual infection you are dealing with is infectious. Make sure if you are not already, to be disinfecting your hands after dealing with anything from this animals enclosure. You not only don't want it to spread to your other animals, but Staph in many forms can be transmitted to you even if it is only a very small chance.
Sorry I wasn't able to post sooner. I don't usually do so anymore but your info is stuff I've seen over the years.
I've dealt with similar symptoms over the years, fortunately only a handful.
I highly doubt your little buddy will make it at this point, but I'll share what I would do at the stage he seems to be at. Please keep in mind I am not a Vet, I am just a fool who has been keeping Chams for 35 yrs as a simple personal hobby, never went professional, has worked in the Pet Industry, and like you never gives up on a sick Cham.
So a few things I hope may be of help to you.
- Mader was great when he was out here in California, if you could get some help from him it would be nice but like somebody else said already...the guy is freaking busy.
- Dr Greek, solid guy. Haven't met him in person since I haven't needed a vet visit in about 10 yrs but all my friends and the herp stores I use say he is the go to guy out here now.
Now back to Chams.....
Anytime a Cham goes off feed for 7 days, make that bug juice. I usually mix in 1/3 gatorade for hydration purposes. You don't need to fill the belly, just keep some small amounts of food in there so always go with small amounts. Keep the temps on the low side for the given species to help avoid dehydration during an illness. That's just personal observation over the years. I've helped with a number of sick herps over the years and with Chams, I found the ones that pulled through are the ones I kept in the lower day temp range, the idea of being sick and they need to be kept nice and warm is over rated when you consider dehydration. I'm not saying chill them, I'm saying if the species likes 82-90F then keep it around 82F is all.
Next, they need the hydration daily. Sometimes just a few drops will do it so don't go overboard. Some would say you'll stress it and kill it, however any sick animal that dehydrates dies too. Any sick Cham is a gamble, the trick is knowing your animal well enough to make the choice.
Based on what you described, the eye doesn't need to be removed, sounds like a systemic infection, also dehydration results in those eyes becoming sunken. Your best bet since you had the lab work done is to use the meds given. I would have asked for an oral version and avoided the injectable which in many cases can be done. Sticking chams is a bad choice unless you are dealing with one of the true giants and even then when I had a sick Parsonii, it was oral meds.
I am not trying to be the prick with bad news, however the average cham that gets to the point you seem to be at doesn't make it. Should you give up on the hobby? No. You clearly care for and appreciate these animals. People like you need to stay in the hobby. If he doesn't make it, dust yourself off and apply your experience to the rest of your chams. The school of Hard Knocks is what all of us go through if we are in this hobby for a long period of time. The end result is over time you find your animals are healthy and you yourself are less stressed.
Last bit of info, the dual infection you are dealing with is infectious. Make sure if you are not already, to be disinfecting your hands after dealing with anything from this animals enclosure. You not only don't want it to spread to your other animals, but Staph in many forms can be transmitted to you even if it is only a very small chance.
Sorry I wasn't able to post sooner. I don't usually do so anymore but your info is stuff I've seen over the years.
Daguerreotype13
Member
I'm so sorry to hear about your situation! My boy Rojo is sick as well, with a left eye closed. However his is due to a respiratory infection. Still I feel for you!
I admire your commitment to this amazing species of animal. IMHO, don't let this one incident, when you've CLEARLY done all you can do, discourage you from keeping chams in the future. It is obvious you are well equipped at providing everything these little guys need, you just got unlucky trying to save a rescue with an infectious disease.
Don't give up! I'll be sending you and yours my best wishes and keep you in my thoughts!
I admire your commitment to this amazing species of animal. IMHO, don't let this one incident, when you've CLEARLY done all you can do, discourage you from keeping chams in the future. It is obvious you are well equipped at providing everything these little guys need, you just got unlucky trying to save a rescue with an infectious disease.
Don't give up! I'll be sending you and yours my best wishes and keep you in my thoughts!
moviemanmania
Avid Member
OldChamKeeper I don't think your a prick at all. I actually enjoyed your information.
I was about to mix up some bug juice this morning to give to him with his meds but I decided to see if he would even eat a superworm and to my surprise he ate two! Could this be the first sign of improvement?
I was about to mix up some bug juice this morning to give to him with his meds but I decided to see if he would even eat a superworm and to my surprise he ate two! Could this be the first sign of improvement?
Miss Lily
Chameleon Enthusiast
I am so pleased he ate for you! That is certainly encouraging. Amy is currently undergoing treatment for her eyes too, and I know how hard it is for them to get both eyes in the right place in order to eat. But the fact that they want to eat and don't give up trying is just so wonderful to see. Amy's aim is off right now so it took her 3 attempts but she ate a waxworm and a calci worm the other day.
OldChamKeeper
Chameleon Enthusiast
If you got him to eat a few on his own, great start. Keep an eye on hydration however, mix a 50/50 gatorade and water and see if he'll take that in whatever method you can get him to. Don't dust any of his meal items until he's back on his feet, the powder is gonna make him thirsty. No need for that at this point. If anything gutload his food items.
The fact you have lab work showing what kind of infection you are dealing with and what it is treatable with may be the main thing going for you. Now you just have to feather throttle as you nurse him back. That simply means don't overdue anything but keep up what you are doing at the pace you feel is best.
Good luck.
moviemanmania
Avid Member
update:
It has been 26 days now since he started his two antibiotics. Still giving him a shot in the arm and oral meds every other day. He's gaining weight, and eating. He's had two bowel movements and is getting outside sun 2-3 times a week right now. He is holding his left eye open effortless and doesn't seem to be closing it. His left eye, however, is still sunken in compared to his right.
One 'side effect' I've noticed is that the lower half of his tail is now curvy and irregular looking. It's almost as though I can see his vertebrates in his tail. This has to mean something but I haven't ever heard or read of that before.
I went last week for his two week checkup and the vet said to continue use of the medications. They didn't take any additional blood work or cultures but examined the eye and found nothing. They said I shouldn't worry about his tail. Anyone have any idea what's going on with the tail?
I would like to breathe a sigh of relief, but really don't think he's better because of the sunken eye. To me, that tells me there is still something going on.
What to do now? Keep him on meds for how long? Vet said to come back in two weeks. I'm not sure what to do....!
It has been 26 days now since he started his two antibiotics. Still giving him a shot in the arm and oral meds every other day. He's gaining weight, and eating. He's had two bowel movements and is getting outside sun 2-3 times a week right now. He is holding his left eye open effortless and doesn't seem to be closing it. His left eye, however, is still sunken in compared to his right.
One 'side effect' I've noticed is that the lower half of his tail is now curvy and irregular looking. It's almost as though I can see his vertebrates in his tail. This has to mean something but I haven't ever heard or read of that before.
I went last week for his two week checkup and the vet said to continue use of the medications. They didn't take any additional blood work or cultures but examined the eye and found nothing. They said I shouldn't worry about his tail. Anyone have any idea what's going on with the tail?
I would like to breathe a sigh of relief, but really don't think he's better because of the sunken eye. To me, that tells me there is still something going on.
What to do now? Keep him on meds for how long? Vet said to come back in two weeks. I'm not sure what to do....!
I will keep you and your little man in our prayers and hope he pulls through this icky mess he's in. on a lighter note glad to read he's making some improvment.
