Just a rant

Yes, It is so hard to not buy them and give it the better care it deserves. But also, PetSmart/Petco needs to learn.

Honestly, while this sentiment is great, I don't think it's teaching companies anything.

When an animal dies in the store, it's stuffed in a freezer and eventually disposed of by an authorized party (humane society, vet, or something similar). It's written on a sheet of paper with the UPC so that every few weeks inventory can be corrected. There's no "Another animal has died in our care!" message sent to anyone that can do anything about it (usually, if anything, it's management blaming employees for doing something wrong). It's just numbers on that end.

Meanwhile, they make so much profit on animals that do sell (that $30 goldfish costs less than a dollar) that when every third one dies, nobody at corporate bats an eye. I'll give them credit for actually paying hundreds of dollars for medical care when an animal is noticeably sick, but for the people so detached from the thousands and thousands of real little lives in stores across the countries, the animal dying before that would be financially preferred. That's why they don't care about giving animals proper environments. And even if a store made an effort to stop carrying a certain animal for whatever reason, there's no guarantee that they wouldn't still get them. Store management has no control over what their store receives. All they can do is update inventory and the distribution center might send more or it might send nothing. Stores can receive animals they aren't supposed to carry, and they can receive more of something even if inventory is full.

If nobody anywhere ever wanted to buy any animals from Petsmart or Petco, that might eventually lead to change. A small, compassionate percentage of customers who silently refuse to buy live animals won't inform corporations of anything. It'd certainly cause more harm than good if everyone ran out to buy the sad chameleons from their local store, but unless you're buying every chameleon you wouldn't be making much of a difference. Until there's some sort of organized pushback (which I'm all for, but it can't be a silent thing), it's just a frustrating, heartbreaking moral dilemma.

I will say, though, if you see a visibly ill chameleon at Petsmart and are thinking of a rescue, you can have the store take it to the vet at the company's expense if you buy it & come back with evidence that it's sick. They process it as a return and should offer to let you re-buy the same one if/when it survives treatment- just be sure to clarify that with whoever you speak with. They have a somewhat no-questions-asked return policy, dead or alive, within the first two weeks anyway. Might as well make them pay more for their terrible practices ?‍♀️
 
This is one area I happen to feel pretty strongly about... 2 of my 3 Veileds are Petco bought.

There are positives and negatives to everything and this is one of those cases. Do I feel like I rescue them? Absolutely. Do I know that I am buying them and contributing to them getting more in? Absolutely.

They are big box stores. They are in it to make money. There are "breeders" that do the exact same thing. Sell them too young and even sick.

Now when I go into Petco I can inspect the chameleon in person. I can see if it is alert and see if there are signs of dehydration. I can ask how long it has been in their care giving me a better idea of risks from improper supplementation and uvb lighting. I can not do this when ordering from most online breeders of Veileds.

I can look at this helpless animal and know that by me taking it home it will live the very best life I can give it. The next person walking in the store may very well be inexperienced and the outcome of going home with them is the same as staying in the store. Ultimately a death sentence.

If you do not want to support these stores then don't... If you do not want to see the chams in the crap conditions they keep them in then don't go into the store.

But also don't diminish their existence there. They are living breathing creatures. They deserve a chance at a long life.

When I first joined this forum I had people tell me that Beman would not live a long life because he was from Petco. They made me feel like he was genetically compromised and that he would be plagued with health issues. That he was less then other chams that get bred by breeders. This was unfair and was a gross generalization. Beman overall is healthy besides being a bit overweight which was my fault not his genetics. Out of my 3 boys he is an absolute sweetheart 90% of the time. He is now almost two and a half years old.

Any chameleon you buy can have a genetic issue... Any chameleon you buy can have parasite issues... Any chameleon you buy can have a health issue.


Just something to think about. In the end every person needs to decide what is best for them. But a fraction of the population deciding not to support these stores truly does nothing to their bottom line and if they continue to sell them.
 
exactly what i am saying. unless everyone, (like everywhere), stops buying from these stores, it honestly almost seems better to rescue a chameleon from there if you want to, because otherwise, they will still keep selling them. and chances are the chameleon will have a much better life and wont die if someone informed takes it. not saying that people who buy from petco aren't informed, some are but alot aren't. I personally will not go in because it makes me so sad, and i couldn't take one even if i wanted to. and id rather not support it, just because it bothers me. when i go in, i see a sad chameleon, and the rest of the day i feel terrible for it, knowing i cannot save it. so i avoid going in at all costs because all it does is make me mad/sad/guilty that i cannot take it
 
what I am about to say is going to be surprising but some might agree.
so I live in palm coast just south of saint Augustine and I got my chameleon from Petco. I called pretty much every breeder or place to get a chameleon in the center of Florida. I found a place called the jungle in deerfield beach three hours aways from where I live and my mom drove me there. we finally got there I was super excited I got there it smelled so bad me and mom eyes and nose burned and had to go outside to breath. So the enclosures were covered in poop and had like 40 baby veilds in an enclosure that was a 1x1x2 and had one vine to climb on. Then I looked at the panthers. there was a dead decaying panther on the floor with another one in the enclosure jet black with again one vine. as any chameleon/animal lover would do I started to cry because of how sad that was. They could have cleaned it up because we called ahead and let them know we coming that day at a certain time but they didn't. so since that failed we went to another place that smelled really bad and burned our eyes. they had 8 full grown male in the same enclosure with no lights and free roamed cricket that were not supplemented. so I ended up three days later buying my guy from Petco and the Chams were healthy and enclosures were very clean. they were well taken care of and the betta fish were good to. so personally it might just be my Petco but it is pretty clean and nice.
 
what I am about to say is going to be surprising but some might agree.
so I live in palm coast just south of saint Augustine and I got my chameleon from Petco. I called pretty much every breeder or place to get a chameleon in the center of Florida. I found a place called the jungle in deerfield beach three hours aways from where I live and my mom drove me there. we finally got there I was super excited I got there it smelled so bad me and mom eyes and nose burned and had to go outside to breath. So the enclosures were covered in poop and had like 40 baby veilds in an enclosure that was a 1x1x2 and had one vine to climb on. Then I looked at the panthers. there was a dead decaying panther on the floor with another one in the enclosure jet black with again one vine. as any chameleon/animal lover would do I started to cry because of how sad that was. They could have cleaned it up because we called ahead and let them know we coming that day at a certain time but they didn't. so since that failed we went to another place that smelled really bad and burned our eyes. they had 8 full grown male in the same enclosure with no lights and free roamed cricket that were not supplemented. so I ended up three days later buying my guy from Petco and the Chams were healthy and enclosures were very clean. they were well taken care of and the betta fish were good to. so personally it might just be my Petco but it is pretty clean and nice.
THAT IS THE MOST HORRIBLE THING, MAKES ME ANGRY!! how dare they do that!!! that is so terrible, im sorry you had to see that!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Yeah i don't even bother looking otherwise I absolutley 100% would get them out....I really can't stand the way these companys operate with SUCH lack of proper housing its so sad to see. ???
 
what I am about to say is going to be surprising but some might agree.
so I live in palm coast just south of saint Augustine and I got my chameleon from Petco. I called pretty much every breeder or place to get a chameleon in the center of Florida. I found a place called the jungle in deerfield beach three hours aways from where I live and my mom drove me there. we finally got there I was super excited I got there it smelled so bad me and mom eyes and nose burned and had to go outside to breath. So the enclosures were covered in poop and had like 40 baby veilds in an enclosure that was a 1x1x2 and had one vine to climb on. Then I looked at the panthers. there was a dead decaying panther on the floor with another one in the enclosure jet black with again one vine. as any chameleon/animal lover would do I started to cry because of how sad that was. They could have cleaned it up because we called ahead and let them know we coming that day at a certain time but they didn't. so since that failed we went to another place that smelled really bad and burned our eyes. they had 8 full grown male in the same enclosure with no lights and free roamed cricket that were not supplemented. so I ended up three days later buying my guy from Petco and the Chams were healthy and enclosures were very clean. they were well taken care of and the betta fish were good to. so personally it might just be my Petco but it is pretty clean and nice.

Ugh, that's so terrible. The big corporations are bad, but I guess it's good that they have some standards.
I swear I've heard of that place in a different context, too. I looked at the google reviews for the heck of it and now I need to go spend time with each one of my little animals, my heart is so sad that even people who look at that every day with the power to change it, just don't care ?
 
It could and should be (as far as I'm concerned) regulated with laws pertaining to the proper husbandry of ANY living thing that is kept for the sole purpose of sales. The box stores as well as reptile establishments should be required to submit to unannounced inspections and be faced with penalties for non compliance. ?
 
It could and should be (as far as I'm concerned) regulated with laws pertaining to the proper husbandry of ANY living thing that is kept for the sole purpose of sales. The box stores as well as reptile establishments should be required to submit to unannounced inspections and be faced with penalties for non compliance. ?
YES!!!
 
Honestly, while this sentiment is great, I don't think it's teaching companies anything.

When an animal dies in the store, it's stuffed in a freezer and eventually disposed of by an authorized party (humane society, vet, or something similar). It's written on a sheet of paper with the UPC so that every few weeks inventory can be corrected. There's no "Another animal has died in our care!" message sent to anyone that can do anything about it (usually, if anything, it's management blaming employees for doing something wrong). It's just numbers on that end.

Meanwhile, they make so much profit on animals that do sell (that $30 goldfish costs less than a dollar) that when every third one dies, nobody at corporate bats an eye. I'll give them credit for actually paying hundreds of dollars for medical care when an animal is noticeably sick, but for the people so detached from the thousands and thousands of real little lives in stores across the countries, the animal dying before that would be financially preferred. That's why they don't care about giving animals proper environments. And even if a store made an effort to stop carrying a certain animal for whatever reason, there's no guarantee that they wouldn't still get them. Store management has no control over what their store receives. All they can do is update inventory and the distribution center might send more or it might send nothing. Stores can receive animals they aren't supposed to carry, and they can receive more of something even if inventory is full.

If nobody anywhere ever wanted to buy any animals from Petsmart or Petco, that might eventually lead to change. A small, compassionate percentage of customers who silently refuse to buy live animals won't inform corporations of anything. It'd certainly cause more harm than good if everyone ran out to buy the sad chameleons from their local store, but unless you're buying every chameleon you wouldn't be making much of a difference. Until there's some sort of organized pushback (which I'm all for, but it can't be a silent thing), it's just a frustrating, heartbreaking moral dilemma.

I will say, though, if you see a visibly ill chameleon at Petsmart and are thinking of a rescue, you can have the store take it to the vet at the company's expense if you buy it & come back with evidence that it's sick. They process it as a return and should offer to let you re-buy the same one if/when it survives treatment- just be sure to clarify that with whoever you speak with. They have a somewhat no-questions-asked return policy, dead or alive, within the first two weeks anyway. Might as well make them pay more for their terrible practices ?‍♀️
I wish change would happen. So sad. ? ? ?
 
what I am about to say is going to be surprising but some might agree.
so I live in palm coast just south of saint Augustine and I got my chameleon from Petco. I called pretty much every breeder or place to get a chameleon in the center of Florida. I found a place called the jungle in deerfield beach three hours aways from where I live and my mom drove me there. we finally got there I was super excited I got there it smelled so bad me and mom eyes and nose burned and had to go outside to breath. So the enclosures were covered in poop and had like 40 baby veilds in an enclosure that was a 1x1x2 and had one vine to climb on. Then I looked at the panthers. there was a dead decaying panther on the floor with another one in the enclosure jet black with again one vine. as any chameleon/animal lover would do I started to cry because of how sad that was. They could have cleaned it up because we called ahead and let them know we coming that day at a certain time but they didn't. so since that failed we went to another place that smelled really bad and burned our eyes. they had 8 full grown male in the same enclosure with no lights and free roamed cricket that were not supplemented. so I ended up three days later buying my guy from Petco and the Chams were healthy and enclosures were very clean. they were well taken care of and the betta fish were good to. so personally it might just be my Petco but it is pretty clean and nice.
NO. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CRAYZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM APPAULED THAT THAT HAPPEND.:mad::mad::mad:
 
I feel that if the chain stores were to provide and promote proper husbandry of whatever animals they sell, it wouldn’t be as much of a dilemma or problem.
I bought Stella because she wasn’t acting right and I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I didn’t give her a better chance. I admit that I got my beardie Spike at a Petco too for pretty much the same reason. In a tank of 12-15 active baby beardies, he was lethargic. It was rough going the first week or two with him and I was very surprised he didn’t die.
Would I make the same decisions again? Absolutely! Would I intentionally turn to a chain pet store when I want to get an animal? No.
 
In England there is no petco or petsmart but there is an equivalent chain pet store called pets at home which is where I got Jasmine about 2 years ago. I'm happy to say that they do a much better job then petco but its still not perfect. The chams there looked pretty healthy and were proper age (like 3-4 months about) and they all had separate enclosures but all the plants in the cages were fake and they were running them on double compact uvbs. Also when I bought Jasmine they told me to put her in a small enclosure to begin with (1.5 x 1.5 x 2 i think) and then once shes bigger buy a larger one. (i think they just did this to get more money out of people). But still they dusted them correctly and misted them properly and didnt recommend water bowls. When I was there they also had an adult female with a calcium problem and they said they were giving her shots or something so they actually care a little about the animals. Also all the other reptiles like the beardies and snakes seemed ok and healthy. Also when we were picking out Jasmine the employee was nice and taught us how to tell if it was male or female by looking at the spurs. So i'm happy that its petco free here.

I honestly and strongly think that if you go to a pet chain store or anywhere that has mistreated animals whatever you do you shouldnt buy it. the more you buy the more they'll ship in its true. I think the only way to stop it is everyone just dosent buy from there. Or maybe you could sue them (of animal cruelty or something idk) but i totally understand if you walk in and see a sad dying cham you just need to buy it must be so mind-numbing seeing them and just walking by them and ignoring it.

I think the best thing you could do is try to talk to the people at petco or notify someone about animal cruelty at petco.
 
....
The only way to get these stores to stop selling chams and other animals is for us to stop buying them. With all of this being said, I am just as guilty as many others...I couldn’t walk away and leave the little girl who is now my sweet Stella another day in that hellacious environment of Petco.
It is a true dilemma and a problem with no easy solutions.
Solutions of problems of this magnitude are rarely easy.

As loathe as I am to make assumptions... Since it's a question of numbers (and not just limited to chameleons; this same discussion is regularly visited about bearded dragons and any other live animals sold by these corporations), are more animals likely to suffer and die by universal boycott to stop the practice, or by well-meaning, caring individuals "rescuing" them, and hence encouraging the practice to continue? Keep in mind there are ~1500 Petsmarts and ~1500 Petcos.

As has been noted, not all big-box pet stores are managed & run equally; some have caring knowledgeable staff who do things right, and some employ naïve persons at minimum wage to whom it's only a stepping-stone job. Unfortunately, the latter far outnumber the former, and I don't expect that to change.

For those of you who have seen these animals mistreated or neglected, there already are laws in effect. Have you reported these businesses to the proper authorities? Has anyone talked to their local SPCA or PITA about them? Before you tell me the authorities don't care...
https://www.change.org/p/niagara-county-spca-shut-down-pets-plus-lockport-ny
https://www.lockportjournal.com/new...cle_f2a46e37-2b13-5205-a41f-942a9125e5b3.html

When enough complaints are received, and/or the light of publicity is shined on an issue, those authorities will respond.

Why don't Petsmart & Petco sell puppies & kittens anymore? Because enough people complained, and enough light was shed on puppy & kitten mills—and the way those animals were kept and abused—to elicit public outrage. The media got involved, doing exposés on what was going on, the profit motives, etc., eventually forcing authorities to take action, and the public to protest & boycott.
IOW, people made things too hot for pet shops to continue these practices. Some (3 that I know of) states have banned the sale of puppies & kittens in pet stores. There's no good reason these bans couldn't—or shouldn't—be expanded to include exotic animals.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...-Ban-FAQ.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1f8pR2DGQ2wvW_HgyJFmgi

It doesn't just happen, and all the bitching & moaning on the internet isn't going to do much either. Concerted efforts need to be made. Don't just make a phone call; follow it up in writing, and get other like-minded people to make complaints as well. One complaint may be (pardon the expression) a nut; 25 or 50 or 100 complaints, and it occurs to somebody that there may be something here worth investigating before the media finds out and makes them "look bad." Better yet to get the media involved sooner—even at a local level.

None of this has to do with, "Do I rescue this chameleon or stay away?" It can happen concurrently.
To strengthen the argument, complaints (backed up by evidence/proof) should include all exotic species that aren't being treated properly.

All social change begins with grass-roots movements and builds from there.
 
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