Just a lot of Problems

[Valcakey]

I made prior posts about her health and got amazing responses from amazing people, but I don't want to keep bothering them.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled chameleon named Chamomile. She's approximately a year and a half and I've had for a year on the 12th.
• Handling - Had never handled her up until a few days ago. Now, I take her outside for sun/UVB once a day for about 15-20 minutes
• Feeding - She hasn't been eating, but when she was it was 10 crickets every 2 days. They were gut- loaded with squash, kale, spinach, flax and sesame seeds, carrot, strawberries, etc. (depending on what we had at the time). We recently had a vet visit and I received Oxbow "Carnivore Care" and "Critical Care" to force feed to her. It's day 4 of that, but today I couldn't get her to open her mouth at all.
• Supplements - I was dusting the crickets every feeding with Zoo Med Repticalcium without D3 and then using Zoo Med Reptivite twice a month. However, at the vet visit, she gave me some Repashy vitamin with D3 to use instead of the Reptivite. I was also given calcium glubionate, which I mix into her force feeding diet.
• Watering - I have a automister that mists every 4 hours. I also set the dripper back up after she was showing signs of dehydration and would leave it on for 15-25 minutes twice daily. She was drinking furiously when the dripper was on, but not recently. Today, I made sure I had warm water and misted her with that and she was drinking what fell from her face.
• Fecal Description - She had stopped eating for about 2 weeks and wasn't having bowel movements, but I have seen 3 bowel movements of the liquid diet that look like the diet itself as a chameleon egg.
• History - Chamomile laid her first clutch of eggs 3 weeks ago. Ever since, she hasn't been eating. I've seen her eat a total of 2 crickets since she's laid. She started to get so skinny that her ribs were showing. She also stopped drinking from the mister and was making herself dehydrated, so I hooked her dripper back up and she went at the puddles on the leaves like crazy. I made her a vet appointment, which was last Friday. They did x-rays and an ultrasound and confirmed that she was not egg bound. I was given the 2 Oxbow powders to force feed to her along with the liquid calcium. The doctor also said her bone density looks good. so no MBD. They also injected her with what I believe to be saline solution just to make sure she was hydrated. When Chamomile was brought back into the room, I commented that one of her eyes was closed while the other was open. The doctor didn't think anything of it and said to come back if she doesn't start eating again and they'll do blood work.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 2x2x4 screen cage (Reptibreeze)
• Lighting - I have both her heat bulb and UVB bulb in a dual dome atop the cage. The heat bulb is a Daytime Blue 100 watt bulb and the UVB is a Reptisun 5.0. She is on a 7pm to 7am lights out schedule
• Temperature - Temperature is 85-88 degrees on her basking branch and goes as low as 75 at the bottom. At night, the temperature drops to about 69 degrees. I have a temperature probe on top as well as a thermometer and hygrometer inside of the cage.
• Humidity - Humidity is typically in the 40-50% range, but it increases to 60% when the lights are out
• Plants - The only live plant I'm using is a pothos plant suspended by wire (the ends of the wire are wrapped in electrical tape)
• Placement - The cage is located in my bedroom, which is in the basement. It sits on a tiny nightstand that is only about a foot and a half high, which means the top of the cage is about 5' 6'' above the ground
• Location - New Jersey

Current Problem - Ever since the vet visit, (described in history section) things have been doing downhill rapidly. Her eyes keep getting more and more sunken in. She rarely opens her right eye (the one I made a comment on at the vet). After the second day of force feeding, she started sitting with her head tilted upwards or standing on her hind legs to get vertical, which I was informed on my other post may unfortunately be due to how I was administering the liquid diet in the syringe. The last 2 days, I've been taking her outside for some natural sun and she seems to do so well from then on until nighttime rolls around. When I come home from work, she'll be sleeping, but trying to keep herself upright. She also moves around a lot when it's lights out recently even though she should be sleeping. Today, I went to feed her and I could only get in ½ a milliliter out of the 2 mL she's supposed to get daily. The rest of the day, she would not open her mouth for me at all. So, our big lot of problems are that:
a.) she's starving herself and won't let me get the force feeding syringe in her mouth
b.) she's showing obvious signs of dehydration, but will only drink in certain circumstances
c.) might have an RI
d.) something's wrong with her right eye
e.) I'm a college student whose vet bill was $423 and I want to be able to give Chamomile the world, but I cannot afford another vet visit. She's dying and I'm trying the best I can to make her better, but it's getting harder and harder. If anyone has any tips, tricks, suggestions, please I am all ears.

 

[Andee]

How many feedings are your doing the 2 ml in? You should be doing it in multiple feedings. She should not be fed over .7 in one feeding of the critical Care. If you make the critical Care thicker and more of a paste you shouldn't have to open her mouth every time. You should be able to get the tip of the syringe passed just her lips and paint the paste along her gums, she will lick it up after you back off.

As far as drinking have you tried a shower? Is the water that's coming out of the mister (in mist form) warm to your touch? I often have to use hot water before it will come out like that.

Are you adding the powdered supplements to the critical care? The right eye may be able to be helped with some added lubrication, I don't think I already mentioned? She likely has something in her eye and since she hasn't been showing good drinking behaviors I will assume her eye health isn't that good either. There is an eye lubrication I have started using in these situations, it's easy to find in human pharmacies. I would also consider buying low IU liquid vitamin A pills and poke a hole in one pill, and squeeze out half the pill, mix it in with your liquid diet. Do only a half in one day. If she does well and shows immediate signs of response she may just need the rest of the other pill in the next couple days and be ok. I know you have been using reptivite but sometimes (especially after laying eggs) they need something more absorbable like a liquid form. Don't worry about bothering us sweetie, it's why we are here.

 

[Valcakey]

@Andee I was doing the feeding in 1 feeding (but not in one 2mL shot). The 2 mL is comprised of a 33:33:33 mixture of the Carnivore Care, Critical Care and Water. She was locking her lips tight yesterday. I rubbed the syringe against her bottom lip for five minutes and she wouldn't open in the slightest. She also has a tendency to pull away once the syringe is in her mouth.

I haven't tried showering yet, but I made the resolution to try today. Could I take the pothos out of its suspension and use that or does it have to be some kind of tall plant?

The water in my mister often ends up coming out cold. My room is in the basement and I can only keep it warm right after I refill the reservoir. I thought about an aquarium heater, but was worried about bacteria and algae growth.

I add the liquid calcium glubionate to the mix as a part of the water ratio. I did all the math to be able to ensure that 2 mL of the solution had 0.1 mL of the calcium.

The vet gave me Repashy brand vitamin powder because he hates Reptivite. Before I was prescribed the liquid calcium, she hadn't gotten any calcium in the previous 2 weeks, which I know is super important for recovering females after laying eggs! Thanks again @Andee. You're like my guardian angel

 

[Andee]

I only do .7 ml in one feeding with my adult male panther cham because it's really easy to over expand their stomachs and make them uncomfortable and if you go too far too quickly the intesitines etc, will explode. I definitely recommend splitting the feedings up and doing .7 ml about at least 30 minutes a part. She may be more understanding then. But honestly the paste way if the easiest with a fussy one.

As far as taking the pothos in the shower, if you have an adjustable shower head (one you can just move around) I use lower plants as well. and just aim it to bounce off the corner Ryker's next to. Make sure it's just above luke warm where it will hit her.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

Hi @Valcakey im so sorry chamomile is not getting better . If she does indeed have a respiratory infection she will need an antibiotic . Her eye could be a result from the RI . I'm not saying it is . I know she has been having an eye issue for a bit , with Frances that's one of her very first signs closing an eye . Is there any chance you could call the vet maybe with seeing her recently , if you explain her new symptom she would be willing to help you out . Her X-rays showed clear lungs correct ?

 

[Valcakey]

I only do .7 ml in one feeding with my adult male panther cham because it's really easy to over expand their stomachs and make them uncomfortable and if you go too far too quickly the intesitines etc, will explode. I definitely recommend splitting the feedings up and doing .7 ml about at least 30 minutes a part. She may be more understanding then. But honestly the paste way if the easiest with a fussy one.

As far as taking the pothos in the shower, if you have an adjustable shower head (one you can just move around) I use lower plants as well. and just aim it to bounce off the corner Ryker's next to. Make sure it's just above luke warm where it will hit her.

She was definitely drinking while in the shower, but she was not feeling it. I had to continually pick her up and put her back on the plant because she would just start walking with her eyes closed off the edge of the pot and almost into the heaviest part of the stream that was running down the shower wall. She would only drink though once enough water collected on her head to fall into her mouth, so I ended up collecting water in my hand to slowly drip onto her and she drank that right up.

 

[Valcakey]

Hi @Valcakey im so sorry chamomile is not getting better . If she does indeed have a respiratory infection she will need an antibiotic . Her eye could be a result from the RI . I'm not saying it is . I know she has been having an eye issue for a bit , with Frances that's one of her very first signs closing an eye . Is there any chance you could call the vet maybe with seeing her recently , if you explain her new symptom she would be willing to help you out . Her X-rays showed clear lungs correct ?

I could try calling the vet although I'm not sure if I would actually be able to speak with a vet or vet tech. The vet didn't mention anything about lungs when we were there. All she commented on was her bone density

 

[Katacara]

It sounds like the vet dismissed some of your concerns and questions about your girls health. Almost like because she was not egg bound and does not have MBD (thank goodness!!) Everything else must be ok. Did you take her to a vet who has real cham experience?Maybe all the vet knew how to do was x-rays to look for eggs and mbd?? If your vet has real cham experience, and you feel like you where dismissed after paying all that $ maybe you should call them and say something. Maybe you could at least bring her in and not be charged the visit fee. That may cut your cost to only meds and tests. I hate it when vets (and doctors for that matter) just dismiss what people have to say about their concerns!

Good luck!! I hope your girl gets better soon!!!

 

[Valcakey]

@Katacara I actually took her to a vet 35 minutes from home because they specialize in exotics. Both primary vets have extensive experience with exotic animals as well as avian. They even have a beardie in the waiting room. I don't necessarily feel like I was dismissed. Her reply to me inquiring about her eye was "now why are you doing that? You just had it open," and she did prod at it a little bit. Overall, she said if Chamomile doesn't improve to bring her back for a follow up and they'll do blood work, but I just can't afford that right now

 

[Andee]

She will wander around often if the water is too warm or too cold for her. My boy does it, sometimes you may need to adjust the shower stream in a way so that it hits her a smidge more, either closer to her so it bounces more onto her, or so that only a small tiny stream hits her. Not sure about your water pressure, or what your shower head is like and if you can make the spray softer? Doing showers with them is almost an art/science, and can take some work fidgeting around with stuff, and might take a couple times for both you and her to learn the process she needs.

I mean you may be surprised how little she needs to actually drink compared to normal because all her food is liquid. That doesn't mean not to give her showers. The showers promote good eye health for chameleons and also help get them drinking if they are thirsty. I use them mostly for good eye health with Ryker since he doesn't drink from them as often as you'd expect.

Is your auto mister a mistking?

 

[Valcakey]

@Andee yep, we have one of the shower heads that you can twist to create different streams and no, her mister is an Exo Terra Monsoon Solo

 

[kinyonga]

If you can't afford a vet maybe you can give her to a rescue place who will be able to look after her?

 

[Andee]

Put the stream on the lightest you have. I agree with Kinyonga sadly. She is pretty desperate currently.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

@Andee yep, we have one of the shower heads that you can twist to create different streams and no, her mister is an Exo Terra Monsoon Solo

I could try calling the vet although I'm not sure if I would actually be able to speak with a vet or vet tech. The vet didn't mention anything about lungs when we were there. All she commented on was her bone density

I would give them a call and relook at her X-rays . If she had pneumonia it would show on X-rays . If she does indeed have an RI at that point it was just that . I would call , have receptionist leave a note for vet to call you .