Deejay
Member
This is my Jackson's Bible: Care Sheet
Jackson's Kidney, Horn Health and Husbandry Issues?
- Thread starter CBee7726
- Start date
Thank you Deejay!
So based on this, the dips in humidity early on shouldn't have caused any serious dehydration?
No, I doubt it. It is more likely something that he had before you got him. If three weeks of dosing with weekly D3 always caused kidney failure then there would be few live Jackson's at all come out of the chain pet stores ever.
You could use a 10.0 T8 I wouldn't recommend 10.0 or 12% in T5 for Jackson's in general.
THat sounds like a good plan and a kindness based on best practices.
Those care sheets worked for a long time but the current thinking is more in line with nature. I try to stay in the 40% range. I don't feel the need to go as low as in nature but you don't need to exceed 50% either. You don't want him in a hot swamp. Night time is where I've been bringing the humidity up as per Bill Strand and company. I try to hit the 80-100% range when it is cool 60-68˚F overnight.
Not to give you false hope and not knowing exactly what this is I can say you are seeing some positive improvements and I've seen some amazing recoveries based on good nursing care and early intervention.
The ladders a a good idea I do it for some of the older guys just to give them a hand.
That is true depending on the level of damage and I am in no way saying stop giving D3 entirely but excess is going to calcify the remaining portion of the kidneys if that is indeed the cause. Over supplementing D3 won't replace 1,25 dihydroxycholecalciferol and once the kidneys are gone you can't come back from that.
Not sure if that was what you were getting at or not?
Thank you, this is very helpful. As a first time cham owner it sounds like really terrible luck if he was likely already like this when I got him
is this really common?As long as he continues improving, I'll start to let his humidity vary again, the vet right now is just concerned with staying hydrated. It's good to know he isn't quite so sensitive to changes in humidity levels. I'll also eventually switch back to a T8 5.0 if he continues improving as well.
I made this for a ladder:
Hopefully I'll be able to provide more updates on him soon.
I really hope with his treatment he can make some sort of recovery or at least minimum slow disease progression. I know it's not always possible but I hope with his cage and supplements under control it makes a difference.
DocZ
Chameleon Enthusiast
I hope so too. Keep taking good care of that little guy
Thank you!
Quick update on my boy:
He doesn't seem to be doing worse, and may have even improved slightly if anything. He's becoming more "intolerant" when I have to handle him for his meds (maybe he's just tired of it? I'd be annoyed if someone kept bothering me too). He still has good/bad days in terms of his activity level, and still does a lot of resting and most of the day his colors aren't great. He lightens up when he sleeps though. He likes the ladders I put in his cage and I imagine he's more comfortable/stable on them.
He hasn't pooped in 2 weeks now, and the vet is puzzled as to why. They said even though he's been on the liquid nutri-support, he should still produce something (at minimum urates). She's waiting to hear back from a colleague of hers regarding next steps.
This entire time I've tried offering food every day, just to see if he'll take it. Today he finally tried to take a cricket from me! He's still pretty apathetic about it though, and after 1 or 2 tries will give up (his bent horn gets in the way a lot, and he gets upset if I put the food too close to his face)
He doesn't seem to be doing worse, and may have even improved slightly if anything. He's becoming more "intolerant" when I have to handle him for his meds (maybe he's just tired of it? I'd be annoyed if someone kept bothering me too). He still has good/bad days in terms of his activity level, and still does a lot of resting and most of the day his colors aren't great. He lightens up when he sleeps though. He likes the ladders I put in his cage and I imagine he's more comfortable/stable on them.
He hasn't pooped in 2 weeks now, and the vet is puzzled as to why. They said even though he's been on the liquid nutri-support, he should still produce something (at minimum urates). She's waiting to hear back from a colleague of hers regarding next steps.
This entire time I've tried offering food every day, just to see if he'll take it. Today he finally tried to take a cricket from me! He's still pretty apathetic about it though, and after 1 or 2 tries will give up (his bent horn gets in the way a lot, and he gets upset if I put the food too close to his face)
I have some sad news
On Saturday morning he finally went to the bathroom after taking a laxative the vet prescribed. All day he looked like he felt so much better: he lightened up and was climbing all over the cage again, and I had a bit of optimism that he might actually pull through.
Saturday evening I found him at the bottom of the cage and he was gone ?
I feel completely heartbroken and defeated that I couldn't do anything more for him. I've learned so much over the last 6 months and I'm glad for the time I had with him, but I'm probably going to be taking a break from chameleons for a while. I would hate to adopt another one and have the same thing happen again.
Thank you everyone, this community has been so knowledgeable and supportive.
On Saturday morning he finally went to the bathroom after taking a laxative the vet prescribed. All day he looked like he felt so much better: he lightened up and was climbing all over the cage again, and I had a bit of optimism that he might actually pull through.
Saturday evening I found him at the bottom of the cage and he was gone ?
I feel completely heartbroken and defeated that I couldn't do anything more for him. I've learned so much over the last 6 months and I'm glad for the time I had with him, but I'm probably going to be taking a break from chameleons for a while. I would hate to adopt another one and have the same thing happen again.
Thank you everyone, this community has been so knowledgeable and supportive.
Last edited:
NashansCamos
Chameleon Enthusiast
Highway61
Chameleon Enthusiast
Have you ever had/cared for a Jacksons? Aside from providing a slightly cooler environment, I haven't found this to be accurate but YMMV.
Thank you, I'll certainly be missing him.
You're completely right that we definitely don't know enough. I think that's what bugs me most about this: the scientist in me always wants answers. I know the answer is out there somewhere, just no one has found it yet. I like to think that someday we'll get there.
After spending a decent amount of time reading through other forum posts, as well as any published literature on the subject I could find that was readily available, I kept running into similar stories and outcomes. Sometimes kidney failure had a clear assignable cause, and sometimes it didn't. Because these guys are good at hiding their illnesses in the beginning, it's often too late by the time it is diagnosed.
Since kidney failure and MBD are some of the most common diseases in chams, do you think routine bloodwork would aid in early diagnosis and possibly prevent or slow onset of severe disease in some cases? I know for sure our chams wouldn't really appreciate getting poked with a needle once or twice a year, but maybe if we evaluate uric acid and calcium/phosphorus levels more frequently maybe we can get better at catching these things before it's too late? My boy had his first wellness check with the vet only a month prior to disease onset and they were really happy with how healthy he was at the time. I can't help but wonder if he had gotten bloodwork done then, if it would've shown elevated UA levels as well and he could have started treatment earlier.
@CBee7726 sorry for your loss if your looking for an easier cham to take care of I recommend a veiled or panther.
Hope we'll see you soon if you decide to get another one.
We'll see how I feel after some time passes, I know I'm definitely not ready to get another one tomorrow. I think the thing I'm struggling most with here is that I'm not really sure what exactly caused disease in my boy, or that it may have even been something that happened before I got him. If it was a husbandry issue that once corrected would prevent this from happening in the future, I might be less hesitant (although I would feel even worse knowing that I made a serious mistake in his care). Maybe it's bad luck and maybe it's because I'm not an expert yet, but it seems like a lot of the time we're rolling the dice on their health when we get them.
To the experts on this forum, how did you get so good at taking care of these guys (I'm assuming it's years of experience like everything else), and did you ever face the same problems a lot of us beginners do, or did you simply "get lucky" or happen to do it right the first time? If/when I do get another cham, regardless of species, I want to make sure he sticks around for a long time.
@CBee7726 ....said..."To the experts on this forum, how did you get so good at taking care of these guys (I'm assuming it's years of experience like everything else), and did you ever face the same problems a lot of us beginners do, or did you simply "get lucky" or happen to do it right the first time?"... I'll never consider myself an expert...still too much to learn.
I faced more problems in some ways because they were all wild caught...came in with injuries, infections, parasites, etc. Also, there was no information on the net, either good or bad. Also sometimes I lucked out and just got things somewhat right. Lots of trial and error.
I faced more problems in some ways because they were all wild caught...came in with injuries, infections, parasites, etc. Also, there was no information on the net, either good or bad. Also sometimes I lucked out and just got things somewhat right. Lots of trial and error.
I don't really know if it would be a good thing to run tests now and then or if it's just better to try to make sure the husbandry is as good as possible.
Well... to people like me you're an expert lol. I believe Einstein himself said "The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know."
I believe the last 6 months was a massive learning curve, and while I'll never say I know everything, I definitely know more than I did in the beginning.
I think if I were to do this again, I would have the cham's habitat dialed in and running before he arrives, and I would verify it with you guys. I *think* I have the basics figured out at this point, but peace of mind/ confirmation is always helpful.
