Jackson's age when slugs appear
- Thread starter spottea
- Start date
fluxlizard
Avid Member
I'm not sure they appear unless they are bred?
I've never kept jacksons females without breeding them and in that case they pass them when the babies are born- if there are any infertile slugs to pass.
Otherwise, I suppose any time after sexual maturity plus several months- so maybe around age 14-16 months?
Maybe someone with more experience with a single pet female will come along.
I've never kept jacksons females without breeding them and in that case they pass them when the babies are born- if there are any infertile slugs to pass.
Otherwise, I suppose any time after sexual maturity plus several months- so maybe around age 14-16 months?
Maybe someone with more experience with a single pet female will come along.
junglefries
Avid Member
They need to be preggers first. jax are live bearing. they are just miscarriages basically. it isn't the slugs that will affect so much. it will be the half formed, skinless, premies, etc... it can be a horrid experience when things go awry. however, i have seen plenty of litters that go as planned.
junglefries
Avid Member
clerify
I should clerify my response. little leaf and i call slugs two different things. for her i believe it was the undeveloped egg itself. for me it was a half formed babies or some other deformity. It is quite possible to get some yellow looking undeveloped eggs from every pregnancy. they can likely form after spermization has taken place. those aren't too alarming. much like an unfertilized yellow egg from a veil or panther. jackson's just have a membrane around theirs. like i previously stated, i have had plenty of birthings without any noticeable slugs, whichever version you call them. remember, you are reading two threads about two experiences. everyone having a successful birth isn't posting, hey guess what happened today. my guess is that you would find it more fun than scary. it really is fun.
I should clerify my response. little leaf and i call slugs two different things. for her i believe it was the undeveloped egg itself. for me it was a half formed babies or some other deformity. It is quite possible to get some yellow looking undeveloped eggs from every pregnancy. they can likely form after spermization has taken place. those aren't too alarming. much like an unfertilized yellow egg from a veil or panther. jackson's just have a membrane around theirs. like i previously stated, i have had plenty of birthings without any noticeable slugs, whichever version you call them. remember, you are reading two threads about two experiences. everyone having a successful birth isn't posting, hey guess what happened today. my guess is that you would find it more fun than scary. it really is fun.
junglefries
Avid Member
Clarify not clerify. sorry. i am tired this morning.
javsto
New Member
I purchased a female jacksons from LLL at a reptile show and the vendor estimated her age at about 6-8 months old and I housed her for about 2 weeks with my Jacksons male and then put her into her own cage and kept placing them together at least one weekend a month for the next six months and she eventually gave birth to 5 babies the following Feb, 2013. I never actually saw the actual birthing process or the mating but the day before she "popped" she was considerably chubby and when I got home from work I noticed 3 little ones walking around the inside of her cage and two were dead.
junglefries
Avid Member
Javsto: You don't want to mate your jax until she at least 12-14 months old. preferably the latter. the young females will give birth to smaller litters and usually a couple of dead ones. however, some are not dead sometimes, just not stimulated enough from the fall. you may want to pick those up and redrop them onto the cage floor. the drop tells them to awaken and break free of the membrane.
Trace
Captain Awesome
Who is up for some discussion?
This is a topic of great interest for me. It is often said that live bearers don’t have infertile clutches like their egg laying sistren. I’m not sure if that is true.
A very brief background first, I worked with a small group of Trioceros goetzei (1.3) chameleons for a long while, plus several other closely related species (all live bearing). Unfortunately the male goetzei passed away before the females but they mate for several years running when he was alive. I did not keep these animals in the typical fashion often recommended on forums like these (80F, 12 hour days/365 days a year, 3 minutes of misting etc) but instead I simulated the seasonal variation like temperatures, humidity, rainfall, day/night cycles that they would encounter in their native Tanzania. These annual changes caused the females to become receptive in the late winter/early spring every year. After the male passed away they would still become receptive but would subsequently give birth to all infertile ova later in the year. This happened every year until the females passed away from old age. I also noted this in other lone females like the Trioceros sternfeldi and some of those had never been previously mated with a male.
That said, why are we not seeing more of these infertile litters? Is it because people are generally keeping their montane species with little seasonal variation? Are people not keeping their montanes in tip-top condition and/or are they not living to their proper age in captivity? Do people give up too easily with breeding the montanes long term? Does the difficulty in raising the babies turn people off for the long haul? Does it happen in the wild? Are my females just the exception to the ‘live bearers don’t give birth to infertiles’ rule?
This is a topic of great interest for me. It is often said that live bearers don’t have infertile clutches like their egg laying sistren. I’m not sure if that is true.
A very brief background first, I worked with a small group of Trioceros goetzei (1.3) chameleons for a long while, plus several other closely related species (all live bearing). Unfortunately the male goetzei passed away before the females but they mate for several years running when he was alive. I did not keep these animals in the typical fashion often recommended on forums like these (80F, 12 hour days/365 days a year, 3 minutes of misting etc) but instead I simulated the seasonal variation like temperatures, humidity, rainfall, day/night cycles that they would encounter in their native Tanzania. These annual changes caused the females to become receptive in the late winter/early spring every year. After the male passed away they would still become receptive but would subsequently give birth to all infertile ova later in the year. This happened every year until the females passed away from old age. I also noted this in other lone females like the Trioceros sternfeldi and some of those had never been previously mated with a male.
That said, why are we not seeing more of these infertile litters? Is it because people are generally keeping their montane species with little seasonal variation? Are people not keeping their montanes in tip-top condition and/or are they not living to their proper age in captivity? Do people give up too easily with breeding the montanes long term? Does the difficulty in raising the babies turn people off for the long haul? Does it happen in the wild? Are my females just the exception to the ‘live bearers don’t give birth to infertiles’ rule?
teejayteej
New Member
I had a 5 to 6 month old Jackson and she passed about 9 to 12 slugs ... she had gotten stressed or something to that nature to cause the action. (at least that was what I was told.)
I do not think that it is normal for them to pass these slugs like egg layers lay clutches even though they had not been bred. I think Littlefoot's case was either a hold back of sperm or the fact the the female was in the same room as the male and knew it. I think that was what I remember her saying or something like that.
I believe that they will not do this normally, but I am not real sure.
I do not think that it is normal for them to pass these slugs like egg layers lay clutches even though they had not been bred. I think Littlefoot's case was either a hold back of sperm or the fact the the female was in the same room as the male and knew it. I think that was what I remember her saying or something like that.
I believe that they will not do this normally, but I am not real sure.
little leaf
Avid Member
ok, I will also help maybe clarify a few things - first - spottea, I almost pm'ed you to let you know what happened to Olive was a "freak" thing - I have a feeling Olive has made alot of Jax owners nervous - I do not want to hijack your thread , but I will post one about what happened so if anyone wants to know - I have a few things I feel help to contribute to what happened - but I dont think 31 slugs will be something most need to worry about ( at least I sure hope not - I sure do not want to do it again ! 
)
)
javsto
New Member
I purchased both of my Jacksons at the Long Island Reptile Expo, the male in Feb 2012 and the female in October 2012. I don't remember the name of the vendor who sold me the male but the female I purchased from LLL Reptile. They sold me a "kit" which included a small reptibreeze cage, a simple aluminum clamp lamp, a coil uvb bulb, a simple plastic leaf and the female Jackson for $100 but I managed to talk them down to $90. When I asked the guy about the females age, he told me that he wasent sure how old she was but assured me that she "looked" to be in proper mating age.
Zephalia
Established Member
Resurrecting an old thread here...
I have a female Jackson's who is estimated at around 7-8 months old. She is very small, doesn't drink or eat around me and is generally skiddish at the sight of me.
Last week I believe she passed about half a dozen slugs. They were small yellowish sacs that were deposited on the foliage in random places throughout the enclosure and I noticed them when I got home from work to mist her. It's hard to say exactly how many there were, as they could have been hidden in the foliage, but I only found 5 or 6.
She came to me mid-February and prior to that I believe she was housed with other males and females. I keep her and the male separate, however. She was shipped from Toronto to Calgary, then a little over a month later, shipped from Calgary to Winnipeg. Resided there with me for a week and a half and then I moved so I had to uproot her again. Since we've moved, I've had two sewage backups in my basement that resulted in me moving them around the house as well. Poor things!
So basically, why is she passing slugs? Was she not too young to be impregnated while she was housed with the males? Was she pregnant but 'miscarried' them all? Did the stress of all the moving cause her to pass them? I'm at a loss. She's fine but I can't find any reliable literature on this.
I have a female Jackson's who is estimated at around 7-8 months old. She is very small, doesn't drink or eat around me and is generally skiddish at the sight of me.
Last week I believe she passed about half a dozen slugs. They were small yellowish sacs that were deposited on the foliage in random places throughout the enclosure and I noticed them when I got home from work to mist her. It's hard to say exactly how many there were, as they could have been hidden in the foliage, but I only found 5 or 6.
She came to me mid-February and prior to that I believe she was housed with other males and females. I keep her and the male separate, however. She was shipped from Toronto to Calgary, then a little over a month later, shipped from Calgary to Winnipeg. Resided there with me for a week and a half and then I moved so I had to uproot her again. Since we've moved, I've had two sewage backups in my basement that resulted in me moving them around the house as well. Poor things!
So basically, why is she passing slugs? Was she not too young to be impregnated while she was housed with the males? Was she pregnant but 'miscarried' them all? Did the stress of all the moving cause her to pass them? I'm at a loss. She's fine but I can't find any reliable literature on this.
Trace
Captain Awesome
In the wild mating and birthing seasons are contingent on climactic variations. Birthing corresponds to rainy seasons when conditions are right and bugs are plentiful so it gives the best chance of survival for the offspring.
Knowing there aren’t many, if at all, successful (repeat? multi-generation?) breeders of Jackson’s Chameleons in Canada are you sure she is 9-10 months old and what were her origins previous to Toronto. If she is a recent import from Tanzania or even Hawaii then she is used to those seasonal changes and will have become receptive and cycle ‘eggs’ whether she was with a male or not. Also some of these species have shorter life spans and mature faster so they become receptive at younger ages. If she is, in fact, wild caught and that could explain her shyness around you as well.
I doubt it was miscarriage or the stress of moving, although that may be part why she dropped them now. I can’t really answer those questions without knowing her entire history.
Yeah there isn’t much in the way of literature on it. We don’t see a lot of these types of threads here for a few reasons but mostly because the bulk of members are keeping oviparous species or are not having luck or the appropriate experience to keep these more weird species properly long term.
I have not worked with the Jackson’s in any great capacity but here are some of my notes on other live bearing species and seasonal variation. You might find this helpful if you decide to breed your pair down the road: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/trace/780-random-musings-seasonal-cycling.html
Cheers,
Trace
Knowing there aren’t many, if at all, successful (repeat? multi-generation?) breeders of Jackson’s Chameleons in Canada are you sure she is 9-10 months old and what were her origins previous to Toronto. If she is a recent import from Tanzania or even Hawaii then she is used to those seasonal changes and will have become receptive and cycle ‘eggs’ whether she was with a male or not. Also some of these species have shorter life spans and mature faster so they become receptive at younger ages. If she is, in fact, wild caught and that could explain her shyness around you as well.
I doubt it was miscarriage or the stress of moving, although that may be part why she dropped them now. I can’t really answer those questions without knowing her entire history.
Yeah there isn’t much in the way of literature on it. We don’t see a lot of these types of threads here for a few reasons but mostly because the bulk of members are keeping oviparous species or are not having luck or the appropriate experience to keep these more weird species properly long term.
I have not worked with the Jackson’s in any great capacity but here are some of my notes on other live bearing species and seasonal variation. You might find this helpful if you decide to breed your pair down the road: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/trace/780-random-musings-seasonal-cycling.html
Cheers,
Trace
