xanthoman
Avid Member
"calciumplus" + d3 = hypervitaminosisD
pt2
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?18x36 dyi cage, screen is it an aluminum frame cage?does it use any type of varnish,coating or galvanized wire? all coatings should be food safe, most arent, pm for further info.galvanized wre is zinc coated,zinc is not good in excessive qty, it can be absorbed through osmosis so crawling on zinc wire can pose athreat particularly if wet. drinking from zinc wire also poses a threat.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?reptisun 5.0 how old is your bulb?linear or cfl?and 60 watt baskingwhat kind of bulb is this? is this an infra red bulb?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?temps are around 85 under basking 75 everywhere else and at night 65 is the lowest it gets maximum recomended basking is 84*tops. as measured by a digital thermocouple in the sweet spot of the basking zone. once healthy, lower night temps would be desireable if you can achieve them.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?60 to 80 humidifier and mistking imo, hydration more important than humidity,humidifier uneccessary if you mist 5x a day, no misting within 90min of lights out.in a caged environment excessive long term humidity will cause a uri
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?pothos, umbrella and heartleaf phl. and snake vera type plant id check a safe plant list on the last 2 just to be sure. imo, one soiless shlefferra that occupies about 2/3-3/4 of the cage is all thats required in terms of plants.plus climbing branches furniture an in cage equip of course.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?it sits 2 feet of floor its near cieling fan but rarely used and its by an air vent not high traffic area. imo, basking zone should be at or above eye level.fans not good.is this area by a tv , subject to kids dogs or loud music?
Location - Where are you geographically located? kansas city
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
looks like she is siezeing! YOUR ANIMAL IS SUFFERING FROM EXTREME HYPERVITAMINOSIS A GUARANTEED, PROBABLY HYPERVITAMINOSIS D AS WELL, GUARANTEED. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. [/QUOTE]
look, you cant just dust, feed, and shovel every vitamin you can find and keep your animal healthy. im not trying to harsh on you but the reality is that your animal has severe hypervitaminosisA and hypervitaminosis d3 and likely other issues as well. sure this is a metabolic issue, but the bottom line is that this issue is brought on by a lack of keeper knowledge. if you want to keep a rare and exotic animal healthy long term , you will actually have to learn about it.
you will need to make a choice of supplements, you cant just use everything, many products dont combine well imo, one of the worst possible combinations is mixing 2 preformed vitaminA products like calcium plus and reptivite or 2 d3 products like cal with d3 and calcium plus you are doing both plus possibly adding additional vitamins besides. imo, this problem has been brewing all along and now it has reached a critical stage. unless you make sweeping and instant changes in your husbandry and supp routine then i doubt your animal will make it to the end of the month. this includes learning about your animal.
here is my recommendation. based on what is known so far.
imo, it is an absolute given that your animal is suffering from extreme oversupplementation on multiple fronts, armed with that knowledge i would recommend discontinuing any and all vitamin supplementation for at least a month and possibly longer based on how well he is doing and what you have learned about nutrition in the meantime. since the specific vitamin content is unknown i would also recommend discontinuing the "fuel" for the time being.
as far as calcium plus goes its a viable product (for a preformed vitaminA product) when used appropriately however it has been severely misused. remember it is a full house vitamin product including preformed vitaminA at a 10:1 ratio with d3 this eliminates a lot of dosing/proportion concerns when given properly, calcium plus is actually not chameleon specific. it is actually crested gecko diet re-labeled for marketing purpose. if you use this product no other vitamin enhanced product should be used.
my specific recomendations;
1. stop all vitamins immediately for at least 1mth. after that dust 5 feeders with 1 matchead of "calcium plus" every week to 10 days, in addition, 1 matchead 2x a week of plain cal nod3. do not give other vitamins when using this product, that includes vitamin fortified foods.
never give supps or cal 2 days in a row.
2. learn about and assemble a home made gutload from cham healthy foods with no added vitamins with info gleaned from sandrachameleons nutritional blog. a good feeder chart that might be a little easier to read can be found here;
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html remember this is a bearded dragon site but much of the info applies. always check sandra chameleons nutritional blog for final determination.
3, post a pic of your urates and give a "observant" description. like your chams life actually depended on it.
4. since there has already been a disproprtionate # of cricks fed, i would resrerve their use soley for dusting purpose and make immediate plans to replace them with dubia as your main feeder. remember even your main feeder should be given no more than 40% of the time max. other suitable feeders include silkworms, hornworms (NOT WAXWORMS) supers, bsfl. xanths should be fed cham healthy ingredients from sandra chameleons webblog with no added vitamins or products of unknown vitamin content. in the meantime it would probably be a good idea to not feed for at least a week
5. discontinue humidifier and bump mistings to 5x a day, no misting within 90 min of lights out. imo, misting water should be changed every 48 hrs.
6. dont use additional d3, its already in the calcium plus in the proper proportion.
7. dont use reptivite, "calcium plus" is a full house multivitamin if you want to use d3/reptivite instead, that would be an entirely different regimen altogether, since calcium plus already has the proper proportions so long as it is not mixed with other vitamin products., but remember no outdoor sun or food for a week, no vitamins for at least a mth (if it lives that long, there could very well be calcification of organs by now or osmotic lysis ( perforation of organs )
8. to be honest the animals condition may be irreversable by now. you should probably see a herp vet asap.
9. here is a brief overview of chameleon metabolics, it is not a simple formula, it is affected by everything your animal eats, everything your feeders eat, everything it sees, or touches and every condition in its environment affects its metabolism. http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitamind3.htm here is more on vitamin A. http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitaminA.htm both articles ken lopez dvm.
pt2
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?18x36 dyi cage, screen is it an aluminum frame cage?does it use any type of varnish,coating or galvanized wire? all coatings should be food safe, most arent, pm for further info.galvanized wre is zinc coated,zinc is not good in excessive qty, it can be absorbed through osmosis so crawling on zinc wire can pose athreat particularly if wet. drinking from zinc wire also poses a threat.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?reptisun 5.0 how old is your bulb?linear or cfl?and 60 watt baskingwhat kind of bulb is this? is this an infra red bulb?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?temps are around 85 under basking 75 everywhere else and at night 65 is the lowest it gets maximum recomended basking is 84*tops. as measured by a digital thermocouple in the sweet spot of the basking zone. once healthy, lower night temps would be desireable if you can achieve them.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?60 to 80 humidifier and mistking imo, hydration more important than humidity,humidifier uneccessary if you mist 5x a day, no misting within 90min of lights out.in a caged environment excessive long term humidity will cause a uri
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?pothos, umbrella and heartleaf phl. and snake vera type plant id check a safe plant list on the last 2 just to be sure. imo, one soiless shlefferra that occupies about 2/3-3/4 of the cage is all thats required in terms of plants.plus climbing branches furniture an in cage equip of course.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?it sits 2 feet of floor its near cieling fan but rarely used and its by an air vent not high traffic area. imo, basking zone should be at or above eye level.fans not good.is this area by a tv , subject to kids dogs or loud music?
Location - Where are you geographically located? kansas city
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
looks like she is siezeing! YOUR ANIMAL IS SUFFERING FROM EXTREME HYPERVITAMINOSIS A GUARANTEED, PROBABLY HYPERVITAMINOSIS D AS WELL, GUARANTEED. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. [/QUOTE]
look, you cant just dust, feed, and shovel every vitamin you can find and keep your animal healthy. im not trying to harsh on you but the reality is that your animal has severe hypervitaminosisA and hypervitaminosis d3 and likely other issues as well. sure this is a metabolic issue, but the bottom line is that this issue is brought on by a lack of keeper knowledge. if you want to keep a rare and exotic animal healthy long term , you will actually have to learn about it.
you will need to make a choice of supplements, you cant just use everything, many products dont combine well imo, one of the worst possible combinations is mixing 2 preformed vitaminA products like calcium plus and reptivite or 2 d3 products like cal with d3 and calcium plus you are doing both plus possibly adding additional vitamins besides. imo, this problem has been brewing all along and now it has reached a critical stage. unless you make sweeping and instant changes in your husbandry and supp routine then i doubt your animal will make it to the end of the month. this includes learning about your animal.
here is my recommendation. based on what is known so far.
imo, it is an absolute given that your animal is suffering from extreme oversupplementation on multiple fronts, armed with that knowledge i would recommend discontinuing any and all vitamin supplementation for at least a month and possibly longer based on how well he is doing and what you have learned about nutrition in the meantime. since the specific vitamin content is unknown i would also recommend discontinuing the "fuel" for the time being.
as far as calcium plus goes its a viable product (for a preformed vitaminA product) when used appropriately however it has been severely misused. remember it is a full house vitamin product including preformed vitaminA at a 10:1 ratio with d3 this eliminates a lot of dosing/proportion concerns when given properly, calcium plus is actually not chameleon specific. it is actually crested gecko diet re-labeled for marketing purpose. if you use this product no other vitamin enhanced product should be used.
my specific recomendations;
1. stop all vitamins immediately for at least 1mth. after that dust 5 feeders with 1 matchead of "calcium plus" every week to 10 days, in addition, 1 matchead 2x a week of plain cal nod3. do not give other vitamins when using this product, that includes vitamin fortified foods.
never give supps or cal 2 days in a row.
2. learn about and assemble a home made gutload from cham healthy foods with no added vitamins with info gleaned from sandrachameleons nutritional blog. a good feeder chart that might be a little easier to read can be found here;
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html remember this is a bearded dragon site but much of the info applies. always check sandra chameleons nutritional blog for final determination.
3, post a pic of your urates and give a "observant" description. like your chams life actually depended on it.
4. since there has already been a disproprtionate # of cricks fed, i would resrerve their use soley for dusting purpose and make immediate plans to replace them with dubia as your main feeder. remember even your main feeder should be given no more than 40% of the time max. other suitable feeders include silkworms, hornworms (NOT WAXWORMS) supers, bsfl. xanths should be fed cham healthy ingredients from sandra chameleons webblog with no added vitamins or products of unknown vitamin content. in the meantime it would probably be a good idea to not feed for at least a week
5. discontinue humidifier and bump mistings to 5x a day, no misting within 90 min of lights out. imo, misting water should be changed every 48 hrs.
6. dont use additional d3, its already in the calcium plus in the proper proportion.
7. dont use reptivite, "calcium plus" is a full house multivitamin if you want to use d3/reptivite instead, that would be an entirely different regimen altogether, since calcium plus already has the proper proportions so long as it is not mixed with other vitamin products., but remember no outdoor sun or food for a week, no vitamins for at least a mth (if it lives that long, there could very well be calcification of organs by now or osmotic lysis ( perforation of organs )
8. to be honest the animals condition may be irreversable by now. you should probably see a herp vet asap.
9. here is a brief overview of chameleon metabolics, it is not a simple formula, it is affected by everything your animal eats, everything your feeders eat, everything it sees, or touches and every condition in its environment affects its metabolism. http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitamind3.htm here is more on vitamin A. http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitaminA.htm both articles ken lopez dvm.
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