Is my guy eating enough?

[Whatascene]

Chameleon Info:

Chameleon: Male, Veiled Chameleon, 6 months old, 5 months in my care.

Handling: Almost daily, if not, maybe 3 times a week.

Behavior: Shy and timid, nonaggressive.

Feeding: Gutloaded and calcium dusted medium crickets. I’m lucky if he eats 3, on a good day he can eat 4, but most days it’s 1 and bad days 0.

Water: misterking goes off 6 times a day for 2-3 minutes. Large dripper at top of cage. I don’t see him drink from leaves, getting him to drink has been a struggle since getting him. Shower treatments 2x weekly.


Cage Enclosure:

Cage: Made of wood, one side is plastic (the back), top of cage is screen, and rest of sides are mesh

Dimensions: 24x24x38

Plants: Large pothos, a few fake leaves, fake bendable vines

Lighting: one 5.0 Linear UVB bulb 15 watt 18 inch T8, and two 60 watt heat/basking bulbs

Temperatures: Two basking areas, 90 degrees; rest of cage ranges from 70-77 degrees. Unfortunately the bottom of the cage is colder, no plants, and temps are in the 60’s.

Humidity- ranges due to misting and room temp, between 30-55%. I do shower treatments 2x weekly.

Placement: Spare bedroom upstairs, little traffic. He is by the window and gets lots of sun on a sunny day. Also near a heating vent to help with the cooler temp of the room he’s in. Room gets colder (in the 60’s)

Location: Ohio, USA- northern cooler temps in the winter.


My guy Oberyn is still recovering from an eye shedding issue (he gets shedding stuck in his turrets). His turrets continue to be swollen constantly, though since I've improved my husbandry (with misterking and space heater to increase heat during cold days) he has shedded some stuff out.

My question is eating. I don't want him to be starving of becoming deficient in anything. Because of his swollen turrets, Oberyn struggles to shoot his tongue accurately (poor guy has got my tongs a few times) so he gets frustrated and insecure about his shots- making him either give up after 1 or 2 successful grabs or not try at all. At this point I worry he is completely dependent on me using my tongs, I don't notice changes in cricket numbers when I'm gone- at least substantial enough to notice.

So I'm worried about how much he is getting. My guess, his average is 2-3 crickets on a normal-better day and on a good day maybe I'll get 4 or 5. But I worry about the days I don't have time to wait him out with the tongs (getting used to my presence, mistrusting, it can be 10 min until he shows interest). I think I'm lucky if he gets 1, if not he's getting 0 on some days.

Thoughts? Feedback? I have the powder you water down to feed by syringe, should I implement this? Thank you!

 

[Whatascene]

Here he is stretched out and annoyed

 

[Whatascene]

And here he is relaxed at bedtime the other night and the other enjoying his mister

 

[Peachypink]

For 6 months old his basking temps are too high. They should be 85 not 90. Once he goes above 9 months then it can be raised to 90-95.

What suppliments are you using?
You need to have him on a plain Calcium, no D3 and a Calcium with D3 as well as a multi vitamin. Calcium woth no D3 needs to be 5 times a week, Calcium with D3 twice a month and multivitamin twice a month.
If he has only been getting plain Calcium then he is not absorbing and using it without the D3 so he will become Calcium deficient. And if he has been getting D3 everyday then he could become toxic and ill.

Have you tried any other feeders to get him interested? He may be bored with crickets.

His eye looks to have something in it. Either derbies or infection. Have you taken him to a vet to look at his eye?

 

[jajeanpierre]

Chameleon Info:

Chameleon: Male, Veiled Chameleon, 6 months old, 5 months in my care.

Handling: Almost daily, if not, maybe 3 times a week.

Behavior: Shy and timid, nonaggressive.

Feeding: Gutloaded and calcium dusted medium crickets. I’m lucky if he eats 3, on a good day he can eat 4, but most days it’s 1 and bad days 0.

Water: misterking goes off 6 times a day for 2-3 minutes. Large dripper at top of cage. I don’t see him drink from leaves, getting him to drink has been a struggle since getting him. Shower treatments 2x weekly.


Cage Enclosure:

Cage: Made of wood, one side is plastic (the back), top of cage is screen, and rest of sides are mesh

Dimensions: 24x24x38

Plants: Large pothos, a few fake leaves, fake bendable vines

Lighting: one 5.0 Linear UVB bulb 15 watt 18 inch T8, and two 60 watt heat/basking bulbs

Temperatures: Two basking areas, 90 degrees; rest of cage ranges from 70-77 degrees. Unfortunately the bottom of the cage is colder, no plants, and temps are in the 60’s.

Humidity- ranges due to misting and room temp, between 30-55%. I do shower treatments 2x weekly.

Placement: Spare bedroom upstairs, little traffic. He is by the window and gets lots of sun on a sunny day. Also near a heating vent to help with the cooler temp of the room he’s in. Room gets colder (in the 60’s)

Location: Ohio, USA- northern cooler temps in the winter.


My guy Oberyn is still recovering from an eye shedding issue (he gets shedding stuck in his turrets). His turrets continue to be swollen constantly, though since I've improved my husbandry (with misterking and space heater to increase heat during cold days) he has shedded some stuff out.

My question is eating. I don't want him to be starving of becoming deficient in anything. Because of his swollen turrets, Oberyn struggles to shoot his tongue accurately (poor guy has got my tongs a few times) so he gets frustrated and insecure about his shots- making him either give up after 1 or 2 successful grabs or not try at all. At this point I worry he is completely dependent on me using my tongs, I don't notice changes in cricket numbers when I'm gone- at least substantial enough to notice.

So I'm worried about how much he is getting. My guess, his average is 2-3 crickets on a normal-better day and on a good day maybe I'll get 4 or 5. But I worry about the days I don't have time to wait him out with the tongs (getting used to my presence, mistrusting, it can be 10 min until he shows interest). I think I'm lucky if he gets 1, if not he's getting 0 on some days.

Thoughts? Feedback? I have the powder you water down to feed by syringe, should I implement this? Thank you!

I can't tell if he is eating enough or not. Accurate weights would tell you if he were gaining or dropping weight. If he is gaining, then he is eating enough.

If they are cold they will not eat. The temps you post are definitely hot enough, maybe too hot, so maybe your thermometers aren't accurate. Check that.

They need light in the UVA spectrum to be active. Without enough light, they will just basically shut down as they do at night. They need light to trigger feeding behaviors. Perhaps your cage is too dark.

Those are a couple of things that will stop a healthy animal from eating.

Then there are health issues, from kidney failure from prior or chronic dehydration, to parasites, stress (chronic or acute) poor nutrition and disease.

His eyes look a mess. They should never have a pocket of something inside the turrets. I believe I have commented on this issue with you before and questioned the competence of the vet you've consulted as he blamed his eye issue on poor genetics for this problem. If I have mixed up posters, forgive me.

If you are the person, I stated you absolutely need to get your chameleon to a competent reptile vet.

There is something terribly wrong going on with his eyes and it is not genetic. It is a medical problem that needs to be addressed. It needs to be seen by someone who is competent. That vet--a competent reptile vet--can then deal with all the other issues you are asking about. We lay people who have never laid hands on your animal cannot diagnose what is wrong.

As an aside, why are you stressing him by putting him in a shower when you have a MistKing???? Showering is for people who do not have good misting systems and you have the best. Misting with a MistKing is FAR superior to any shower. You do not need a dripper, either. You are misting a lot. I am not surprised to learn you never see him drink. He is breathing in the fog. I never see mine drink, either.

Please, just get him to the a GOOD vet.

 

[Virgil1972]

I would have to agree about getting him to a vet to check out that eye. It could be causing him pain and that could be a reason he is not eating a lot. Make sure it is a good vet. Not all vets are created equal, ask them what experience they have with reptiles and what experience they have with chameleons. Don't worry to much about seeing him drink, if his urates are white then you will know he is drinking. If they are yellow or orange then you should start to worry about that as well. They are secretive animals and most do not like to drink when people are around.

 

[Whatascene]

I can't tell if he is eating enough or not. Accurate weights would tell you if he were gaining or dropping weight. If he is gaining, then he is eating enough.

If they are cold they will not eat. The temps you post are definitely hot enough, maybe too hot, so maybe your thermometers aren't accurate. Check that.

They need light in the UVA spectrum to be active. Without enough light, they will just basically shut down as they do at night. They need light to trigger feeding behaviors. Perhaps your cage is too dark.

Those are a couple of things that will stop a healthy animal from eating.

Then there are health issues, from kidney failure from prior or chronic dehydration, to parasites, stress (chronic or acute) poor nutrition and disease.

His eyes look a mess. They should never have a pocket of something inside the turrets. I believe I have commented on this issue with you before and questioned the competence of the vet you've consulted as he blamed his eye issue on poor genetics for this problem. If I have mixed up posters, forgive me.

If you are the person, I stated you absolutely need to get your chameleon to a competent reptile vet.

There is something terribly wrong going on with his eyes and it is not genetic. It is a medical problem that needs to be addressed. It needs to be seen by someone who is competent. That vet--a competent reptile vet--can then deal with all the other issues you are asking about. We lay people who have never laid hands on your animal cannot diagnose what is wrong.

As an aside, why are you stressing him by putting him in a shower when you have a MistKing???? Showering is for people who do not have good misting systems and you have the best. Misting with a MistKing is FAR superior to any shower. You do not need a dripper, either. You are misting a lot. I am not surprised to learn you never see him drink. He is breathing in the fog. I never see mine drink, either.

Please, just get him to the a GOOD vet.

I was so happy to see you reply here. I am trying so hard to figure out this guy's care. Oberyn loves showers what what I notice and it always perks him up after. I am located in Cincinnati, OH and I'm trying so hard to find a vet. The guy I went to is sort of advertised as "the guy" I am feeling hopeless. You helped me understand it's not genetic I haven't approached his issue like that since you informed me.
I do believe his eyes are the primary culprit to the eating since he misses his tongue shots 3 out of 5 tries. I know if chameleons aren't confident in their shot they can stop eating. I'll do more calling around for a vet and work on temps... uhg I feel like I'm failing this guy so badly yet I'm honestly doing the best I can. I'm spending hours a week on making sure he eats, monitoring temp and water resources, I just want him to feel better; it's so hard to watch him waste away like this.

 

[Whatascene]

Update! Apparently we have a chameleon rescue person who gives resources here and she got back to me with a different vet! They are squeezing him in today, will keep you posted!

 

[Graves923]

Keep us updated on what the vet says. Best of luck!

 

[jajeanpierre]

I was so happy to see you reply here. I am trying so hard to figure out this guy's care. Oberyn loves showers what what I notice and it always perks him up after. I am located in Cincinnati, OH and I'm trying so hard to find a vet. The guy I went to is sort of advertised as "the guy" I am feeling hopeless. You helped me understand it's not genetic I haven't approached his issue like that since you informed me.
I do believe his eyes are the primary culprit to the eating since he misses his tongue shots 3 out of 5 tries. I know if chameleons aren't confident in their shot they can stop eating. I'll do more calling around for a vet and work on temps... uhg I feel like I'm failing this guy so badly yet I'm honestly doing the best I can. I'm spending hours a week on making sure he eats, monitoring temp and water resources, I just want him to feel better; it's so hard to watch him waste away like this.

Glad to hear you have a referral for a better vet. When you say he misses with his tongue, I wonder if he doesn't have some sort of nutritional issue (maybe low blood calcium level?) which is affecting the muscles of their tongue. Or a tongue injury? Bottom line, though, his eyes need to be dealt with.

If he is having trouble being accurate with his tongue, you can cup or hand feed if he'll agree or give him prey that tends to not move. I've had lots of chameleons with tongue problems and it is labor-intensive to get them to eat.

 

[Whatascene]

UPDATE
Aright, so I went to a vet that was highly recommended by a person who has a Cincinnati Chameleon rescue. She told me this guy has seen all of all her chams and she doesn't go anyway else. I am so glad I found her otherwise I don't know if I would have ever found another vet- he actually is an avian vet. So I don't want to do this guy any sort of injustice if I pass on information that's not completely accurate, so please be forgiving I'll try my best.

First of all, he said that the shedding turret issue is due to a sinus infection caused by bacteria Oberyn had back in the pet store. I begged him to analyze my husbandry and he was adamant from his exam and per the timeline of issues Oberyn has had, that it started from the pet store. Of course no matter if this is true or not, I'm blessed with the knowledge I now have from these forums that have drastically improved my husbandry. He said that the problems with shedding the turret comes from a missed sinus infection that inflamed his eyes, effecting his ability to get junk out of his eyes. So the swollen turrets are mostly swollen from the infection, not the debris. He flushed Oberyn's eyes and we are now during several rounds of antibiotics. He thinks Oberyn is overall in good health, though he needs to gain more weight. He tube fed him today. I will be back on Monday for round two. This guy was wonderful and I feel more confident in him. He was alarmed that the past vet did not check inside Oberyn's mouth for bacteria or signs of sinus infection (I had no idea this was a thing). I will keep you all posted and thank you so much for your advice and feedback on this wacky journey with my poor little guy. I shouldn't have named him Oberyn, not sure that helped his luck with his eyes lol!

 

[Whatascene]

Oh and the slinging he agrees with me, it's because his eyes are inflamed and the swelling blocks his vision.

 

[jajeanpierre]

UPDATE
Aright, so I went to a vet that was highly recommended by a person who has a Cincinnati Chameleon rescue. She told me this guy has seen all of all her chams and she doesn't go anyway else. I am so glad I found her otherwise I don't know if I would have ever found another vet- he actually is an avian vet. So I don't want to do this guy any sort of injustice if I pass on information that's not completely accurate, so please be forgiving I'll try my best.

First of all, he said that the shedding turret issue is due to a sinus infection caused by bacteria Oberyn had back in the pet store. I begged him to analyze my husbandry and he was adamant from his exam and per the timeline of issues Oberyn has had, that it started from the pet store. Of course no matter if this is true or not, I'm blessed with the knowledge I now have from these forums that have drastically improved my husbandry. He said that the problems with shedding the turret comes from a missed sinus infection that inflamed his eyes, effecting his ability to get junk out of his eyes. So the swollen turrets are mostly swollen from the infection, not the debris. He flushed Oberyn's eyes and we are now during several rounds of antibiotics. He thinks Oberyn is overall in good health, though he needs to gain more weight. He tube fed him today. I will be back on Monday for round two. This guy was wonderful and I feel more confident in him. He was alarmed that the past vet did not check inside Oberyn's mouth for bacteria or signs of sinus infection (I had no idea this was a thing). I will keep you all posted and thank you so much for your advice and feedback on this wacky journey with my poor little guy. I shouldn't have named him Oberyn, not sure that helped his luck with his eyes lol!

I am so glad you took him to a new vet!!!! It sounds like you found a good one.

Sinus infections are fairly common. I think Vitamin A deficiency plays a major role in this kind of infection. Vitamin A is involved in the shedding of skin cells, so tubes throughout the body become blocked when an animal if deficient of Vitamin A. It often shows up as respiratory infections and a lot more issues you commonly see in captive chameleons. Vitamin A is a difficult vitamin for captive chameleons to get enough of. They cannot convert Beta Carotene to Vitamin A and feeder inscects are poor suppliers of the vitamin. Egg yolks should be full of things like Vitamin A and calcium that last a baby chameleon for months after they hatch. A poorly nourished female does not have the nutritional resources to deposit Vitamin A (or calcium) into the egg yolk, so babies are hatched severely deficient.

Ask your vet about an injection of Vitamin A.

Few vets are "board certified" for any specialty. Board certification is not the be all and end all for who is an expert. Reptile medicine is in its infancy. I've used many avian vets for my reptiles. Birds and reptiles are similar. Many systems are virtually the same and unlike mammalian systems.

Interesting fact: Did you know that scientists now agree birds descended from the group of dinosaurs known as Theropods, which also includes the Velociraptor featured in Jurassic Park? The question scientists are asking now is whether they ARE dinosaurs rather than dinosaur descendants.

 

[CharlieCharmingo]

I am so glad you took him to a new vet!!!! It sounds like you found a good one.

Sinus infections are fairly common. I think Vitamin A deficiency plays a major role in this kind of infection. Vitamin A is involved in the shedding of skin cells, so tubes throughout the body become blocked when an animal if deficient of Vitamin A. It often shows up as respiratory infections and a lot more issues you commonly see in captive chameleons. Vitamin A is a difficult vitamin for captive chameleons to get enough of. They cannot convert Beta Carotene to Vitamin A and feeder inscects are poor suppliers of the vitamin. Egg yolks should be full of things like Vitamin A and calcium that last a baby chameleon for months after they hatch. A poorly nourished female does not have the nutritional resources to deposit Vitamin A (or calcium) into the egg yolk, so babies are hatched severely deficient.

Ask your vet about an injection of Vitamin A.

Few vets are "board certified" for any specialty. Board certification is not the be all and end all for who is an expert. Reptile medicine is in its infancy. I've used many avian vets for my reptiles. Birds and reptiles are similar. Many systems are virtually the same and unlike mammalian systems.

Interesting fact: Did you know that scientists now agree birds descended from the group of dinosaurs known as Theropods, which also includes the Velociraptor featured in Jurassic Park? The question scientists are asking now is whether they ARE dinosaurs rather than dinosaur descendants.

Interesting information. Screw scientific approval let's just start calling them dinosaurs. People already think chameleons are cool when they find out you have one. How much cooler would it be to say, "Hey do you want to check out my dinosaurs?" Lol.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Interesting information. Screw scientific approval let's just start calling them dinosaurs. People already think chameleons are cool when they find out you have one. How much cooler would it be to say, "Hey do you want to check out my dinosaurs?" Lol.

Sorry, chameleons are reptiles. It's birds that there is a debate about them being dinosaurs. Dinosaurs split off from reptiles something like 150 million years ago. About 65 million years ago there was a mass extinction of all dinosaurs except one group of feathered dinosaurs which became modern birds.

 

[Whatascene]

Just dropped him off for round two of antibiotics. Poor little guy is going to be spending the night in an incubator since the hours didn't match my work schedule. Ahhh separation anxiety!! Will provide more updates and I cannot express enough gratitude for the support and knowledge!! Especially from Jajeanpierre, you've been giving me soooo much knowledge since the beginning! Will talk about vitamin A with the vet!!