is my cham anti social?

[ThomasFord]

every time i try to interact with him he acts like i want to kill him. I've practiced hand feeding him with worms but he declines every time. He eats fine by him self though. He's a male blue bar ambilobe panther. when i open his cage up, and hes on a branch, he will just slide to the other side to try to become unseen. I want to practice picking him up but if my hand even looks like its going to go near to prop up a branch so he doesnt fall, he will flare up. He just gets way too nervous against me, am i doing something wrong?

 

[Andee]

How long have you been trying to gain his favor for? How long have you had him?

 

[JGuinan007]

Most Chameleons are anti social a lot of people start to gain their chameleons trust buy 1st bribing them with food like hand feeding there are many threads on here discussing this.

 

[Carlton]

every time i try to interact with him he acts like i want to kill him. I've practiced hand feeding him with worms but he declines every time. He eats fine by him self though. He's a male blue bar ambilobe panther. when i open his cage up, and hes on a branch, he will just slide to the other side to try to become unseen. I want to practice picking him up but if my hand even looks like its going to go near to prop up a branch so he doesnt fall, he will flare up. He just gets way too nervous against me, am i doing something wrong?

How old is he and how long have you had him? Chams vary a lot in personality, so you may have gotten a shy one. If he's that stressed out by your hand right now don't force him to step on to you. You have lots of time to help him accept your presence. There's no deadline to meet. Most chams will fire up when you (the intruder) go into his territory...that's a pretty typical response. However, if he immediately hides from view he's intimidated. If he threatens you with a lunge and gaping, he's being defensive.

 

[BabyChamCham]

Yea mine does that too, but he'll handfeed perfectly. He doesn't flare up too. But he never really wants to come on my hand.. he's a 3 month veild

 

[alphakenc]

Observe ur cham behavior,takes time n patience to let down their guard,never rush to approach them,that will only scare them away or even being aggressive n defensively,they aint going anywhere soon,if today wont interact with you,there is always a tomorrow to try again.

 

[Andee]

Babies are more likely to be shy in the beginning, if you've only had him a little while and he's not yet taking food from your fingers I wouldn't even try handling him.

 

[BabyChamCham]

Observe ur cham behavior,takes time n patience to let down their guard,never rush to approach them,that will only scare them away or even being aggressive n defensively,they aint going anywhere soon,if today wont interact with you,there is always a tomorrow to try again.

So since he's already eating from my hands, what steps do I follow next towards handling? Also, I've had him for 6 weeks and 2 days.

 

[alphakenc]

Teach him how to roll over
Actually that is pretty amazing for 6weeks and 2days(cant believe u actually count those date)

 

[BabyChamCham]

Teach him how to roll over
Actually that is pretty amazing for 6weeks and 2days(cant believe u actually count those date)

He actually started eating from my hands the day I brought him home. He's gotten used to me but how do I get him to accept the handling?

 

[Andee]

Put something like a silkworm farther up your arm so he has to take that step but does it himself

 

[alphakenc]

He actually started eating from my hands the day I brought him home. He's gotten used to me but how do I get him to accept the handling?

By watching his body language,thing like walking towards ur hand or hesitate n puff up the opposite way,and every day even every moment will be different,read his body language n proceed accordingly.

 

[Remkon]

I've had various lizards and my approach is always the same.

He should first accept you to be present in his enclosure before you will try to handle him otherwise it will be to stressful and he may not ever forgive you if you force him to much.
Just be in his cage (when cleaning for example) and ignore him (don't look at him, don't talk to him etc).
Eventually he will see you are no predator and he should calm down.
Make sure you don't disturb him when he's already showing (dark) stress colors, you don't want to add more stress.
Don't approach him from above, always stay lower than him with your hands and make sure it's clear for him where you are moving.

Once he's comfortable with you being in his enclosure you can start tong-feeding, from then on it should go faster and you can try to handle him... Don't grab him but let him walk onto your hand by putting it in front of him on his branch, then gently bump his behind so he will start moving.

 

[Cucumber]

Do some chameleons just hate having their territories invaded and never get over it? Our veiled chameleon is a similar age. Once out of the enclosure he is fun to interact with. He eats from our hands, and spends hours at a time on us now. He seems to like having the underneath of his chin rubbed, loves crawling in to my girlfriends long curly hair and seems happiest perched on top of my baseball cap. However he still hates being removed from his enclosure. He hisses at us, lunges, hides etc, he always has. We slowly approach and persuade him on to our hands, and then he calms down. I am sure some people will say we should not be stressing him out and we are pushing it. However we want to get him familiar with human contact from a young age and it appears to have worked. It means he gets to roam around outside with us and get more exercise outside of his enclosure. It felt like the right thing to do otherwise he would have spent his whole life inside his vivarium. I'd be interested to hear your opinions...

 

[ThomasFord]

How long have you been trying to gain his favor for? How long have you had him?

ive had him for about a month or two. when should i start hand feeding him

 

[Cucumber]

ive had him for about a month or two. when should i start hand feeding him

Hey Thomas
We had a breakthrough this week. cucumber is our first chameleon so we're totally new to chameleon care, so what i say may not be gospel. But we bought a huge Fiscus, now we open the door and move the tree in front of it, after a while he makes his own way out. They seem very defensive of their own vivarium/enclosure, but doesn't lunge at us from the tree, or at least much less.

We started hand feeding almost immediately with locus. However what he really loves is mealworms. Try some mealworms one by one placed on the flat of your palm, and hold your hand lower than him. Our Cham seems to prefer to be elevated to feed from our hand and decently prefers his pray on the flat of our hands. Also try and watch his moods, when he comes out if he's moving around everywhere then he probably isn't in the mood to eat. When he calms down a bit he's usually more interested. We're not experienced handlers so I can't say with authority but I'd get him hand feeding from you ASAP, that way he'll start to gain that positive association with your hands. Also try not to overload his tank with prey if you're planning to hand feed him. Also try hand feeding before you release prey in his enclosure so you're not attempting to feed him on a full stomach, and if you haven't tried mealworms yet give it a try, Cucumber goes mad for them!

Oli

 

[jajeanpierre]

Do some chameleons just hate having their territories invaded and never get over it? Our veiled chameleon is a similar age. Once out of the enclosure he is fun to interact with. He eats from our hands, and spends hours at a time on us now. He seems to like having the underneath of his chin rubbed, loves crawling in to my girlfriends long curly hair and seems happiest perched on top of my baseball cap. However he still hates being removed from his enclosure. He hisses at us, lunges, hides etc, he always has. We slowly approach and persuade him on to our hands, and then he calms down. I am sure some people will say we should not be stressing him out and we are pushing it. However we want to get him familiar with human contact from a young age and it appears to have worked. It means he gets to roam around outside with us and get more exercise outside of his enclosure. It felt like the right thing to do otherwise he would have spent his whole life inside his vivarium. I'd be interested to hear your opinions...

I find reading posts/threads like this upsetting. There must be a post like this at least once a week or more often. I write a long explanation of what I think is happening based on years of studying under some of the best animal trainers in the world and based on what I know about the natural history of chameleons. (Natural history is the study of animals in their natural environments usually by observation, not experimentation.)

My explanation usually goes something along the lines of chameleons aren't social, they don't interact socially with their own species except to mate. I explain that since they don't have chameleon relationships, they will not form one with you other than to learn that certain things happen. I explain that a chameleon views humans as predators and always will although they will often over time learn that the you don't pose an imminent danger to their lives, but others remain in mortal terror of humans their whole lives. I explain that calming down upon being removed forcibly from their cage is often a response to a stress overload and has nothing to do with enjoyment. And then I will explain how stress will suppress the immune system and ultimately cause illness. I will be met with disbelief by people--often people with their first chameleon that is still a baby--who will tell me how much their chameleon likes being handled, etc., etc., etc. Then months later I will read posts by these same people in the health section asking for help because surprise surprise, they have health issues. Or a not-so-novice keeper will write a post of yet another of their beloved chameleons dying or gravely ill at a young age

Since time immemorial chameleons have evolved to be invisible, to not be seen. They do not flee; they do not fight. They hide. They don't want to be seen and they don't want to be handled. They are not a Poodle.

It is very disheartening to see the same mistakes repeated over and over again. I think maybe I need to take a sabbatical and just let you novices and not so novices get on with killing your chameleons. Obviously I am wasting my time trying to help.

 

[Cucumber]

I find reading posts/threads like this upsetting. There must be a post like this at least once a week or more often. I write a long explanation of what I think is happening based on years of studying under some of the best animal trainers in the world and based on what I know about the natural history of chameleons. (Natural history is the study of animals in their natural environments usually by observation, not experimentation.)

My explanation usually goes something along the lines of chameleons aren't social, they don't interact socially with their own species except to mate. I explain that since they don't have chameleon relationships, they will not form one with you other than to learn that certain things happen. I explain that a chameleon views humans as predators and always will although they will often over time learn that the you don't pose an imminent danger to their lives, but others remain in mortal terror of humans their whole lives. I explain that calming down upon being removed forcibly from their cage is often a response to a stress overload and has nothing to do with enjoyment. And then I will explain how stress will suppress the immune system and ultimately cause illness. I will be met with disbelief by people--often people with their first chameleon that is still a baby--who will tell me how much their chameleon likes being handled, etc., etc., etc. Then months later I will read posts by these same people in the health section asking for help because surprise surprise, they have health issues. Or a not-so-novice keeper will write a post of yet another of their beloved chameleons dying or gravely ill at a young age

Since time immemorial chameleons have evolved to be invisible, to not be seen. They do not flee; they do not fight. They hide. They don't want to be seen and they don't want to be handled. They are not a Poodle.

It is very disheartening to see the same mistakes repeated over and over again. I think maybe I need to take a sabbatical and just let you novices and not so novices get on with killing your chameleons. Obviously I am wasting my time trying to help.

 

[Cucumber]

Firstly thanks for making me feel awful about keeping a chameleon Jajean. We went with a chameleon because we wanted a pet but didn’t want to leave a mammal alone all day whilst we’re at work. We spent a lot of time researching different lizards, chameleons appealed to us because they are so independent.


I am glad you’re such an expert and have done so much research under one of ‘the best animals trainers in the world. That’s exactly why I came to the chameleonforums, hoping to find expert advice like yours rather than admonishment for choosing to keep a chameleon. That I can find on any other social media platform.


Maybe you should set up your own website that excludes ‘novices and not so novices’ from contributing or reading your posts, that way you can bottle up all your knowledge and grow a very long beard and feel very smug that you know so much and we know so little. Or perhaps you could write a detailed document/post that we can novices can approach when we start out with a chameleon.


We found a way around having to put our hands in to our enclosure, by opening the doors and leaving a large plant in front of his enclosure he comes out to eat and play after a few minutes and heads back to his enclosure when he’s had enough. It’s brilliant, all parties now seem very happy.


Have you ever actually seen or studied chameleons in the wild Jajean? I worked in Madagascar on a project increasing awareness of biodiversity levels to try and lobby against deforestation. We had to handle many wild chameleons in the process. Your comment “They do not flee; they do not fight. They hide.” This is codswallop. They do flee like other creatures and they stand their ground like other creatures, that’s exactly what our pet chameleon seems to be doing in his enclosure.


I understand that you’re not comfortable with people keeping chameleons as pets, maybe as you suggest you should move on from the chameleon forums if this is the case. I have come here looking for an aid to give our new pet the best and most comfortable life we possibly can and hopefully meet like minded people in the process. That’s how pet forums work.

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forums. Some chameleons can become cage aggressive and once out of the cage show a very different personality. I have been keeping chameleons along with my daughter since 2004. We've had one male panther live to 8 years old, a couple to 7 years and many to around the 6 year mark. Most of our chameleons have been very sociable but we spend allot of time with them and interact with them daily. Do you have small children or other pets? If you have a safe area to free range your chameleon it would help allot. In the wild chameleons are not caged and I have no cages at all in my house. Cages are not a natural thing for chameleons but I do realize that some keepers have to cage them to keep them safe. My family and I got to spend 2 weeks in South Africa and Madagascar watching chameleons in the wild a few years ago and all but a couple were very socialable in the wild. I'd just put out my hand and slide it under their front legs and they'd crawl right on my hand. We would make photos of them and then return them to the exact place that we found them. If you work slowly with your guy he will mostly with come around. I'm attaching a blog from one of our long time members that you might find helpful.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/entry/the-taming-of-the-chameleon.746/