AmberNichole
New Member
On a different forum this person was asking if her male is a late bloomer, because he has no interest in breeding. Come to find out he is only 5 months old!? I'm no expert by any means, but seems crazy to me. What are your guys thoughts? Am I out of line?
HER: Are some male panthers just late starters? Mine is easily big enough to mate the females (I've had to use his smaller brother as a stand-in because my female hit 65g and I really didn't want to risk waiting!) but he just ignores them. It's as if he doesn't see them, he doesn't even react to them going in his enclosure.
Is he likely to get better at it as he gets older? He's not full grown yet, but he's pretty big
HER: he's only 5 months
ME:Wait until at least 9-10 months to even consider introducing him to a female. Mating is stressful, even for the males. Males usually about 9-10 months, females 12 months.
HER: A female is 2/3 way through her life at a year! She'll long ago have started laying infertile eggs and really be too old to assume she's still good to breed from!
They start to develop ova ready to lay from about 50g (sometimes as young as 4 months if they're a fast grower) and will start to develop them to eggs mated or not by about 65g at the latest.
To make sure they're fertile it really is recommended to mate them at about 55-60g to prevent any problems.
Remember that in the wild life expectancy on a female anther is about 8 months. Hatch at the beginning of the season, grow, mate, lay eggs, die before winter.
HER:Males can mate very young and can start to show an interest long before their colours develop!
I'm still talking panthers here, other species, other rules. Although I don't know of any species (parsons/mellors and the BIG species excepted, I think they grow much slower?) where a year old female is sensible to start breeding, it's just far too old
ME: Control temps, control food, and do not breed too young and your femals can easily live past 2 years and produce fertile clutches every few months. And yes I am talking about panthers.
HER:That's how the big wild world treats them, not me
I'm not sure why you would want to restrict food to an animal that has evolved to grow fast and eat a lot whilst it's doing so. These animals are not here to be adjusted to our keeping pleasure, to restrict the things they need to make them age more slowly than is natural. Is that even possible?!
We should keep them as well as we are able. Offer food and water regularly, mate them if we are able to prevent them from having to lay infertile clutch (which are HARD on the girls!) and care as well as we can!
ME: How you are doing it is wrong, IMO. It shortens the life of the females and IMO shows a complete disregard for the females welfare. Panthers in the wild get a HUGE assortment of natural foods that we cannot replicate (hence all of the supplements), they get 100% natural sunlight and the optimum temperatures. They may breed sooner under THOSE optimum conditions, but in our care they should not. We cannot give them the OPTIMUM conditions and it is our responsibility to make sure that their bodies can cope. If your females are 2/3 the way through their lives at 1 year old, you are not fulfilling that responsibility as a chameleon owner.
HER: Are some male panthers just late starters? Mine is easily big enough to mate the females (I've had to use his smaller brother as a stand-in because my female hit 65g and I really didn't want to risk waiting!) but he just ignores them. It's as if he doesn't see them, he doesn't even react to them going in his enclosure.
Is he likely to get better at it as he gets older? He's not full grown yet, but he's pretty big
HER: he's only 5 months
ME:Wait until at least 9-10 months to even consider introducing him to a female. Mating is stressful, even for the males. Males usually about 9-10 months, females 12 months.
HER: A female is 2/3 way through her life at a year! She'll long ago have started laying infertile eggs and really be too old to assume she's still good to breed from!
They start to develop ova ready to lay from about 50g (sometimes as young as 4 months if they're a fast grower) and will start to develop them to eggs mated or not by about 65g at the latest.
To make sure they're fertile it really is recommended to mate them at about 55-60g to prevent any problems.
Remember that in the wild life expectancy on a female anther is about 8 months. Hatch at the beginning of the season, grow, mate, lay eggs, die before winter.
HER:Males can mate very young and can start to show an interest long before their colours develop!
I'm still talking panthers here, other species, other rules. Although I don't know of any species (parsons/mellors and the BIG species excepted, I think they grow much slower?) where a year old female is sensible to start breeding, it's just far too old
ME: Control temps, control food, and do not breed too young and your femals can easily live past 2 years and produce fertile clutches every few months. And yes I am talking about panthers.
HER:That's how the big wild world treats them, not me
I'm not sure why you would want to restrict food to an animal that has evolved to grow fast and eat a lot whilst it's doing so. These animals are not here to be adjusted to our keeping pleasure, to restrict the things they need to make them age more slowly than is natural. Is that even possible?!
We should keep them as well as we are able. Offer food and water regularly, mate them if we are able to prevent them from having to lay infertile clutch (which are HARD on the girls!) and care as well as we can!
ME: How you are doing it is wrong, IMO. It shortens the life of the females and IMO shows a complete disregard for the females welfare. Panthers in the wild get a HUGE assortment of natural foods that we cannot replicate (hence all of the supplements), they get 100% natural sunlight and the optimum temperatures. They may breed sooner under THOSE optimum conditions, but in our care they should not. We cannot give them the OPTIMUM conditions and it is our responsibility to make sure that their bodies can cope. If your females are 2/3 the way through their lives at 1 year old, you are not fulfilling that responsibility as a chameleon owner.