Is he chubby?

Beman said:
Waiting on blood work is not necessary. He is overweight. The bloodwork is not going to tell you he is overweight it is going to tell you if there is an issue like uric acid being too high which can be linked to poor organ function and hydration levels. It will tell you if there are signs of infection etc. Once they are overweight if you continue to feed at the same schedule and amount they just continue to hold more weight. Adults do not need the same food intake because they are no longer growing so it converts to fat. With him being in a small cage he also does not have the ability to move around much so he is not converting the food to compensate for a raised activity level either. Even with larger cages if they are fed too much it simply is just too much and turns to fat storage.
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I am definitely putting him on the diet you recommended. You are so knowledgeable! Thank you!🙏
 
CharlieWhiskey said:
He was 178 grams in October and now he’s 192 grams
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Back with more questions... Just paranoid me over here 😅
1. Is this obese? I'm not sure what the best range is for male panthers. I for sure know he's overweight tho.

2. If I buy an Arcadia UVB bulb- is it this one? Arcadia bulb. I have the Reptisun T5 HO 24" linear fluorescent bulb with reflection UV that we talked about earlier and want to make sure it fits!

3. is this okay for the basking bulb? Zoomed Repti basking 50W bulb. I see that lightyourreptiles.com has this one- chromalux. I believe I have an 8" dome.

4. Should I use this? dimming thermostat or light fixture with dimming. I wasn't clear on it on the husbandry form so I wanted to double check. I am guessing it is supposed to be a dome lamp and not a linear since it's for basking. 🤔

Thank you as always!
 
Got Louie’s bloodwork back and the vet said
blood work shows slight inflammation but no toxicity or reactivity, the values for the liver and kidney were within normal limits to the reference values that we have. We would like to follow up on the fecal testing.​
Such a relief 😅
 
CharlieWhiskey said:
Back with more questions... Just paranoid me over here 😅
1. Is this obese? I'm not sure what the best range is for male panthers. I for sure know he's overweight tho.

2. If I buy an Arcadia UVB bulb- is it this one? Arcadia bulb. I have the Reptisun T5 HO 24" linear fluorescent bulb with reflection UV that we talked about earlier and want to make sure it fits!

3. is this okay for the basking bulb? Zoomed Repti basking 50W bulb. I see that lightyourreptiles.com has this one- chromalux. I believe I have an 8" dome.

4. Should I use this? dimming thermostat or light fixture with dimming. I wasn't clear on it on the husbandry form so I wanted to double check. I am guessing it is supposed to be a dome lamp and not a linear since it's for basking. 🤔

Thank you as always!
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For panthers, we determine body size/obesity by their casque or top of the head. For Lou, the casque is protruding above the (Just realized I don’t know what they’re called) casque border. See pics below of Lou and then one of mine, who has a flatter casque. It’s hard to go by weight as each is a bit different.
For the lights, they all look good to me, but I would encourage contacting Light Your Reptiles just to double check. He is an awful nice guy and super helpful and will make sure you’re getting exactly what you need.
IMG_0274.jpeg IMG_6851.jpeg
CharlieWhiskey said:
One more thing... I read something saying that chams can go through a winter blues. What is that?
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It’s not something that all panther chams do, but I’m finding that mine do go thru a period of slowing down a little and their color fading, usually in the winter months. I find it very odd since I live in Florida and pretty much keep my house at the same temp year round. It only seems to be my male panthers. My veileds and my female panthers don’t show any changes like this.
This is my guy Mango at the end of November, the above pic is from mid December and this last one is a week ago.
IMG_6750.jpeg IMG_6955.jpeg
 
Is there somewhere to get branches? I know birch, manzanita and oak are ok. I would like to order some if possible but don’t know a reputable place.
I was going to look into magnetic branch holders. My suction cups drive me crazy. I think I may order a different feeder also. I currently have the Neptonion but it keeps getting water in it from the mister. Are there any sites that sell plants without commercial soil? I want to make sure I do this right and am not so hot with plants.
 
I just get my plants from Lowe’s, Walmart and Home Depot and my branches from wherever I find them (and know they’re not treated with chemicals). You could check with tree trimming companies to see if they can set you up with some oak or other branches. There have got to be some neighborhoods that have non sappy trees. Hit them up after a weekend and especially if there’s been a good wind storm. Some of the craft stores sell branches, but too often people have found insects living inside of them and boring their way out. Etsy is probably a decent source for branches too. I’ve bought plants off Etsy before and they arrived perfectly, but they were so very tiny. The BioDude sells plants of a fairly better size. I’m not sure about Josh’s frogs plants. If you can’t find branches, Fluker’s vines are good along with https://www.amazon.com/Poen-Climbin...eptile+vin,aps,233&sr=8-95&xpid=UcUzLUtb5bZB1
Just found this while looking for a certain vine on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Reptile-Terr...e+vin,aps,233&sr=8-69&xpid=UcUzLUtb5bZB1&th=1
 
I keep finding branches like your 1st link but worry that the material isn’t safe for them. Am I just being paranoid (like I am with absolutely everything in his enclosure and it’s exhausting 🥱) ?
 
I was thinking of getting a printed jungle background for him. I think he doesn’t like the reflection of the glass. He doesn’t puff up but is always looking at it.
 
I know when I order feeders online that there is usually a preset amount the companies send out(25/50/100 etc.). How do you all manage the feeders since in my case I am putting Louie on a diet? The dubia last quite a while so I am not too worried about that but the horn worms and silk worms are another story. Thank you!
Also, since his blood work came back okay... besides the parasites test for a fecal sample is there anything else a fecal would show? I'm happy he is healthy but want to make sure they are screening for anything else I need to worry about.
 
Beman said:
Ok so unfortunately the edema would not be related to over supplementation of fat soluble vitamins. As your herptivite actually does not contain D3 or A. Both being very important for cham health but the lack of these would not cause edema either. But he is not getting what he needs with this supplement. This would need to be changed out for something like repashy calcium plus LoD version then given 2 times a month.

Further more if your not giving oral bee pollen this puts us back to what internally is causing the edema.

So with him being overweight this would then indicate to me a link. You can get him into a vet and have blood work run. My worry would be compromised renal function.

Unfortunately this is not something that a simple husbandry correction recommendation would correct and my advice is getting him in with a good reptile vet.

Should you want to take a look at his diet to help reduce weight please provide the info requested above about your feeding info.
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I have changed both supplements to Repashy since the Herptivite didn't contain the D3 or A. Should I be worried long term since he wasn't getting the correct vitamins?
 
CharlieWhiskey said:
I know when I order feeders online that there is usually a preset amount the companies send out(25/50/100 etc.). How do you all manage the feeders since in my case I am putting Louie on a diet? The dubia last quite a while so I am not too worried about that but the horn worms and silk worms are another story. Thank you!
Also, since his blood work came back okay... besides the parasites test for a fecal sample is there anything else a fecal would show? I'm happy he is healthy but want to make sure they are screening for anything else I need to worry about.
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Since some feeders don’t last long or stay at a decent size for long, I’ll start feeding them off when they are a bit smaller than ideal. Hornworms usually come in 10-12 counts I think and try to find a vendor who will ship them when tiny. I’m currently waiting for some to grow, and as they do, they re fed off. For silkworms, you can also start feeding them when a bit smaller but you can also let them complete their life cycle and cocoon. When they emerge, they are the cutest little moths that you can either feed to your chameleon or (if you have enough and of both genders), let some mate and lay eggs that you can later try hatching. Crickets and their poor mortality rate usually takes care of their own numbers.
 
MissSkittles said:
Since some feeders don’t last long or stay at a decent size for long, I’ll start feeding them off when they are a bit smaller than ideal. Hornworms usually come in 10-12 counts I think and try to find a vendor who will ship them when tiny. I’m currently waiting for some to grow, and as they do, they re fed off. For silkworms, you can also start feeding them when a bit smaller but you can also let them complete their life cycle and cocoon. When they emerge, they are the cutest little moths that you can either feed to your chameleon or (if you have enough and of both genders), let some mate and lay eggs that you can later try hatching. Crickets and their poor mortality rate usually takes care of their own numbers.
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Thank you! I don’t do crickets anymore. That are so high maintenance. I would love to let the silkworms cocoon but I have a serious irrational fear of moths 😂.

I have noticed that the horn worm food that they are shipped with looks totally different than the dry bagged stuff I buy. Is there a reason? It seems every time I make it , it turns out to be too wet. Even if I try less water and it’s definitely a much lighter color too. The horn worms don’t seem to like it as much either.
 
CharlieWhiskey said:
Thank you! I don’t do crickets anymore. That are so high maintenance. I would love to let the silkworms cocoon but I have a serious irrational fear of moths 😂.

I have noticed that the horn worm food that they are shipped with looks totally different than the dry bagged stuff I buy. Is there a reason? It seems every time I make it , it turns out to be too wet. Even if I try less water and it’s definitely a much lighter color too. The horn worms don’t seem to like it as much either.
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I use Repashy Superhorn mix when I’ve had need. It mixes up quite well and the hornworms do seem to like it well enough. Most of those types of powders need time to set and in the case of silkworm chow, needs to be microwaved & blended a couple of times.
Might I ask if you would be less afraid of silkmoths if you knew they are incapable of flight? They really aren’t like the standard moth. The males do quite a lot of wing flapping until they lock up with a female. But I get it…I have the craziest irrational fear of dinosaurs, specifically T Rex. Just don’t ever ever let your hornworms pupate into moths, intentionally or accidentally as they are big moths that you don’t even want to know about…harmless though, but big.
 
MissSkittles said:
I use Repashy Superhorn mix when I’ve had need. It mixes up quite well and the hornworms do seem to like it well enough. Most of those types of powders need time to set and in the case of silkworm chow, needs to be microwaved & blended a couple of times.
Might I ask if you would be less afraid of silkmoths if you knew they are incapable of flight? They really aren’t like the standard moth. The males do quite a lot of wing flapping until they lock up with a female. But I get it…I have the craziest irrational fear of dinosaurs, specifically T Rex. Just don’t ever ever let your hornworms pupate into moths, intentionally or accidentally as they are big moths that you don’t even want to know about…harmless though, but big.
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I am going to order some of the Repashy then. If it works for you then it must be good. I don't understand why it looks so different than their premade stuff?? I have no trouble making the silkworm food (though it is a bit more labor intensive) but sheesh am I not a fan of the hornworm stuff. I make it according to the directions on the bag and cover the top of the food with plastic wrap like it says, but inevitably it always ends up too wet. As I see it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to cover the food if you don't want it to retain moisture. I literally had to use a paper towel and press the food to get the extra water out! Ugh

As for the silkmoths (shudders uneasily)… I am unsure. I could possibly have my husband try and give him one and hopefully Louie doesn't like it.🤞😅 If I see a moth flying next to me or flapping around I run away. I dropped my Christmas wreath-which luckily didn't break the decorations-when I was removing my fall sign from outside my door and guess what was behind it. A big fat moth-I almost grabbed it! 🤢 I flap around (ironically like a moth), shriek and run. Good thing I'm not embarrassed easily because it's happened at work, in my yard, at a friends house and on the side of the freeway (picture me with all the doors open, windows down and the back hatch open standing very far away on the side of the road). Soooooooooo ridiculous but happens none the less. We should all start a club.

Im So Excited Jimmy Fallon GIF
 
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