Interaction Conditioning

[gguidr7]

Hi.

I hate being as cliche as every new poster here, BUT "I'm new to the forums." My interest in chameleons (specifically veiled) has been recently piqued so naturally I began researching. I found this site very quickly, only second to FL Chams, and began reading. I felt I had read enough to start poking my nose, well mouth, into the forums, so I attempted to advertise my search for a group of newly layed veiled eggs. I quickly found that posting in the wanted ads section of the classifieds is off limits to a junior member like myself, so I figured I'd start in the general discussion threads instead.

Thanks for reading that.

Now as to my thread subject: I was wondering what many of your thoughts were on how interaction affects, if at all, a cham's attitude towards humans. I have seen that many of you have found that your naturally reluctant cham may be sort of conditioned to tolerate or even "like" human interaction. I obviously would love for my future cham to be active with me and willingly interact. I realize, however, that it may always be resistant, and I'm willing to accommodate that. But, I would love to hear what everyone thinks on chameleons' inherent ability to be taught to interact.

Thanks!

 

[Olimpia]

I certainly think they can be conditioned. These are the things I've learned/think from my last 2 years with chameleons.

1. Let them settle in a week or so at first. Don't want to spook them too soon with all the change.
2. Always try to hand feed if you can. It associates your visits/hands with yummy treats.
3. Never attempt to pull a chameleon out of the cage. If you think about it, the animal is for all intensive purposes cornered in his cage, so when your huge hand comes in it's always going to be scary. I would never attempt to just rush in a try to lift your cham out with your hand - either let him climb out of the cage on his own or use a stick perch to get him out slowly.
4. If you let your cham come out on his own to explore then you can lay your hand along his path and see if he'll climb over/on your hand. Hold him for a few seconds and let him go back. I think that if you keep interactions short and gentle, he doesn't even have time to stress out, so before he knows it it's over and nothing bad happened.
5. Taking them out for outside time in the sun/shade is also a great reward. Sunshine always makes them feel good, along with food.

These are just the things that I've observed anyway, and have worked for me with my last 2-3 chameleons. Daedalus is a complete sweetheart and everyone at my vets loves him because he's so calm. Others I didn't condition at all and have turned out pretty mean. But personality does have a big part in it, so it still may not work. It's a bit of a gamble!

 

[Gotti]

You have any tips on hand feeding? Ive held a worm in front of my veiled for a good bit and he doesn't run doesn't fire up just stares -_- haha

Should I just be patient and keep trying?

 

[Olimpia]

I usually start oout using tweezers. It keeps your hand away a bit and it's not as scary. Then if that's going smoothly I'll hold my palm open with a worm or have the worm on the tip of my finger. There's no one way to do this, but it's whatever works with your cham's personality.

Patience will win in the end!
And so will a bit of hunger. Try handfeeding before you feed them anything else that day, so they're a bit hungry.

 

[gguidr7]

That all sounds reasonable. I have been learning how to train with my first puppy that my girlfriend and I got this January. He is incredibly intelligent and very strong-willed, so he weighs every decision with the consequences. I imagine it is a similar give/take with a chameleon -without the chiding for "bad" deeds. Associating handling with stress-free food seems like the most logical way to raise a more outgoing cham.

 

[Carlton]

That all sounds reasonable. I have been learning how to train with my first puppy that my girlfriend and I got this January. He is incredibly intelligent and very strong-willed, so he weighs every decision with the consequences. I imagine it is a similar give/take with a chameleon -without the chiding for "bad" deeds. Associating handling with stress-free food seems like the most logical way to raise a more outgoing cham.

What helps me interact with a new cham the most is to remind myself how their wild origin shapes their behavior in terms of survival. After all, even though we have successfully created captive generations of chams, they are still basically a wild animal with very specific adaptations to their habitat.

Chams evolved to avoid trouble and hunt by being sneaky; they are pretty vulnerable without venom, fangs, claws, power, size, overt aggression.
Chams defend a territory.
Chams are cold-blooded, meaning their ability to think and act depends on the surrounding temperature, not just their own will.
Chams communicate visually, not vocally.
Chams didn't evolve to live or benefit from a group, so they are not socially sophisticated (or needy) animals. They are not symbiotic...relying on others for survival.
Chams didn't rely on a complicated brain, problem solving, or wits to survive. Fast thinking wasn't really required.
Chams are discerning enough to be individuals. It will take time to demonstrate their tolerance, curiosity, and how past experience shaped them.

So, as a human keeper I need to remember that they most often are going to view me as a potential threat...either an intruder, a rival, or a predator. First response is going to be hide, flee, or bluff. Once they learn I am just part of their world, that I am not going to eat them, or take their territory away, we'll get along better. When I change my appearance daily it is confusing to a creature that pays close attention to color and its meaning. All my handling is also confusing because they don't understand just why one animal would willingly touch another of a different species. Sure, they can learn this is safe, but it takes time. Once I place them into a new little piece of habitat it becomes theirs (if they even like it). Invading it all the time is threatening. If this new habitat is missing key things like height, warmth, rain, food, cover the cham will spend a lot of energy trying to get some place safer. If something is wrong or the cham is sick, it is vulnerable. Showing weakness means death or losing territory, so they hide their problems until they are no longer able to. It isn't natural for a cham to be fed by another animal, so again takes time for them to accept and understand. Much as I might want my chams to behave like a human or a dog, they simply can't, so I need to accept and enjoy them in what ever way they prefer to act.

 

[gguidr7]

What helps me interact with a new cham the most is to remind myself how their wild origin shapes their behavior in terms of survival. After all, even though we have successfully created captive generations of chams, they are still basically a wild animal with very specific adaptations to their habitat.

Chams evolved to avoid trouble and hunt by being sneaky; they are pretty vulnerable without venom, fangs, claws, power, size, overt aggression.
Chams defend a territory.
Chams are cold-blooded, meaning their ability to think and act depends on the surrounding temperature, not just their own will.
Chams communicate visually, not vocally.
Chams didn't evolve to live or benefit from a group, so they are not socially sophisticated (or needy) animals. They are not symbiotic...relying on others for survival.
Chams didn't rely on a complicated brain, problem solving, or wits to survive. Fast thinking wasn't really required.
Chams are discerning enough to be individuals. It will take time to demonstrate their tolerance, curiosity, and how past experience shaped them.

So, as a human keeper I need to remember that they most often are going to view me as a potential threat...either an intruder, a rival, or a predator. First response is going to be hide, flee, or bluff. Once they learn I am just part of their world, that I am not going to eat them, or take their territory away, we'll get along better. When I change my appearance daily it is confusing to a creature that pays close attention to color and its meaning. All my handling is also confusing because they don't understand just why one animal would willingly touch another of a different species. Sure, they can learn this is safe, but it takes time. Once I place them into a new little piece of habitat it becomes theirs (if they even like it). Invading it all the time is threatening. If this new habitat is missing key things like height, warmth, rain, food, cover the cham will spend a lot of energy trying to get some place safer. If something is wrong or the cham is sick, it is vulnerable. Showing weakness means death or losing territory, so they hide their problems until they are no longer able to. It isn't natural for a cham to be fed by another animal, so again takes time for them to accept and understand. Much as I might want my chams to behave like a human or a dog, they simply can't, so I need to accept and enjoy them in what ever way they prefer to act.

Information like this is invaluable to me. I really want to inform myself as thoroughly as possible before I even begin planning my enclosure setup, let alone, getting a chameleon. I really appreciate it Carlton!

 

[Carlton]

Information like this is invaluable to me. I really want to inform myself as thoroughly as possible before I even begin planning my enclosure setup, let alone, getting a chameleon. I really appreciate it Carlton!

Thanks. Maybe this kind of thinking is easier for me because wildlife is a big part of my job as a biologist. For almost all animals out there, another creature is either a mate, a predator, food, or something that can be safely ignored. You've got to take them on their own terms and to understand them is to protect them.

 

[gguidr7]

I had a feeling you were a biologist. Everything you use as evidence for your reasoning is linked to the biology and the (sociology?) of the animal.

I guess my real question is rooted more in the viability of "nature vs. nurture" psychology in chameleons. Like you said, they are naturally socially unsophisticated, so I'm wondering where the line is drawn.