I'm done with dubias - suggestions for replacement?

[Connorology]

Hello all,

I have decided I am going to phase out my dubias and replace them with... something else. The primary reason is that their tendency to "play dead" (or at least not move at all) in the food dish or feeder run means that they don't trigger a feeding response. My panther chameleon Spicoli seems to hate them beyond this, and while he will take several feeders from my hand per feeding he will outright refuse dubias, and if I coax him to eat one he will stop eating after he receives it.

I have some red-runners too, which my animals do like, but I am very cautious with them because they are naturalized in my area and can survive just fine if they escape indoors, even though they don't tend to infest homes. I am hoping for something more tropical that won't survive if it escapes.

Any suggestions for a dubia-like roach (can't climb glass/plastic) that doesn't just sit there and play dead? I have heard anecdotally discoids might be better in that regard, any thoughts?

 

[Andee]

Ivories, orange heads, or discoids might be a good choice.

Orange heads require a higher protein content which can be attained with vegetation but if its not reached correctly they will cannibalize. However they are bright colors, softer bodied and chunky.

 

[jamest0o0]

Byrsotria roaches are so underrated... what andee said are all great options too

Eublaberus, blaberus, byrsotria are among my favorite staples in no order. Then there's things I have for more variety like hisser, ember, shadow, banana, and really anything else. Tbh they're all more active than dubia and I'd just go with something that interests you and then work on making the colony large enough to be your staple.

Again with byrsotria, one type even looks very similar to dubia, but is more active.

 

[MissSkittles]

Being in Florida I’ve never had dubia. I do have discoids and for the most part, they do move well. Every now and then though they will climb the screen in the shooting gallery feeder and just sit there, not moving. I have to gently flick them a couple of times to get them to move. This is only an issue with my panther who is sweet and pretty, but not the brightest about eating.

 

[Persnickety Parson's]

I'd say red runners and ivory heads, both run around, and don't play dead

 

[jamest0o0]

Ivory are good, I like them a lot, but I think I like six spot(E distanti) a little better. They look almost identical too, similar behavior too(burrowing/composting). The thing I like though, their legs aren't as spikey. Those adult and large nymph ivories have some damn spikey legs lol.

 

[Andee]

Ive been looking at six spot too, those babies are so pretty.

 

[snitz427]

Paging Dr. jamest0o0 , Dr. jamest0o0 to the chameleon forums, please. (I know, I’m late)

The Orange Heads I got from James were freakishly fast. Very active and all sizes are useful… but adults were a little too large for me to feel comfortable feeding.

 

[Andee]

Paging Dr. jamest0o0 , Dr. jamest0o0 to the chameleon forums, please. (I know, I’m late)

The Orange Heads I got from James were freakishly fast. Very active and all sizes are useful… but adults were a little too large for me to feel comfortable feeding.

Yes orange head adults are large and should only really be fed to larger species. I wouldn't feed them to a panther or veiled unless you get a really really good chewer. Especially cause orange heads will bite if left alone in a cage for too long (one of the few roaches that do after a shorter period of time). I feed the adults to my skink, and have fed them to large scorpions or tarantulas. But honestly they aren't great for feeders as adults.

 

[jamest0o0]

I think a lot of roaches have the propensity for predation given the opportunity and lack of protein. It's just some will do it more willingly, like some hissers, giant caves, orangeheads, red runners, lobsters, and a few others I've seen readily eat each other without food available. Only ever seen one roach bite though and it was a halloween, my cham got an adult right where it's jaw was against the skin of my cham and it bit down on him drawing a little blood. I rubbed a little manuka honey on it and it healed just fine, but only time I've experienced a bug biting my guy.

 

[Connorology]

I think a lot of roaches have the propensity for predation given the opportunity and lack of protein. It's just some will do it more willingly, like some hissers, giant caves, orangeheads, red runners, lobsters, and a few others I've seen readily eat each other without food available. Only ever seen one roach bite though and it was a halloween, my cham got an adult right where it's jaw was against the skin of my cham and it bit down on him drawing a little blood. I rubbed a little manuka honey on it and it healed just fine, but only time I've experienced a bug biting my guy.

What do you feed your colonies? I want a species that readily eats leafy greens and the repashy gutload I use. Dubias devour both, red runners are pretty meh on my gut loading.

 

[jamest0o0]

What do you feed your colonies? I want a species that readily eats leafy greens and the repashy gutload I use. Dubias devour both, red runners are pretty meh on my gut loading.

I mostly use an all natural whole food horse chow, bee pollen, spirulina, veggie/fruit scraps, and whatever leftover gutload mixes I have. They all eat mostly everything. Some have their preferences, but nothing too crazy.

 

[Connorology]

I'm probably leaning discoids, though smaller may be better - are any of the aforementioned species smaller than discoids?

 

[Persnickety Parson's]

Red runners are small, I'd say about half the size of a Periplaneta species.

 

[nightanole]

If you can figure out what to do with the adults, im having great luck with hissers. They move alot more, are slow, and start out dubia size. Just gotta feed them off before they get too big

The tegu is having a good ole time chasing them down, though the rest of the family doesnt like the "death hisses" even though i have to explain the noise is coming from their butts...

 

[Tony_S]

I also switched to orange heads and my panther loves them. He wouldn't touch dubia's for the same reason as yours. Them not moving around and playing dead.

I also tried red runners. They moved around a lot, but they also tried to make a roach ladder and climb out of my feeder. So they had to go.

 

[Connorology]

Red runners are small, I'd say about half the size of a Periplaneta species.

Yeah I have some red runners in an escape-proof (literally water-tight with a gasket with window screen over air holes too small for them to escape from to begin with) enclosure. I will occasionally feed them off. I had a larger colony last year - I culled it because some roaches started showing up in my yard and I was worried they were escapees - they weren't, all of Sacramento and the surrounding suburbs is currently experiencing a Turkestan roach boom. I suppose one could argue this is a selling point of the red runners - if they escape, it's basically a lateral move since they're already everywhere. Still, I'm looking for a species that will ideally dessicate in the environment if it happens to escape.

If you can figure out what to do with the adults, im having great luck with hissers. They move alot more, are slow, and start out dubia size. Just gotta feed them off before they get too big

The tegu is having a good ole time chasing them down, though the rest of the family doesnt like the "death hisses" even though i have to explain the noise is coming from their butts...

These aren't my favorite either. I appreciate the suggestion, but I bred them when I was a kid and they climb everything and the babies hide... I found an escapee in a drawer months after I had culled my colony. I actually have a small colony of Halloween hissers right now that I don't know what to do with. Spicoli won't eat them, my gecko won't eat them, they can climb glass... Even the Halloween hissers get so big that none of my animals can eat them. If I had a big animal like a Tegu I could see using them though.

I also switched to orange heads and my panther loves them. He wouldn't touch dubia's for the same reason as yours. Them not moving around and playing dead.

I also tried red runners. They moved around a lot, but they also tried to make a roach ladder and climb out of my feeder. So they had to go.

Yeah I have had that issue with the red runners as well. I'll consider the orange heads. Maybe I'll buy a couple species, see what my animals eat, and propagate that species.

...I don't suppose anyone commenting here is in Northern California? The Sacramento Metro area is like 111F right now, there's no way I'm going to be able to order anything and have it be delivered alive. Otherwise I'll wait until Autumn I guess.