I think Olive is in trouble !!! - anyone up -

[little leaf]

I wonder if the live bearer can have Coelomitis like my precious Sadie did???
I am praying for you and your sweet Olive.

thanks every one - I am a wreck

Jann, that is my fear- but I also know ( or at least think ) if she had a ruptured uterus, the slugs would take the path of least resistance - and would not still be passing thew the vent - as low as her belly is hanging - and as huge as she was/is- I know mares can rip the lower abdomen muscle, and the uterus then lies on the floor of the gut- but they can still pass the foal because the uterus itself is in-tacked - I swear I am going back to breeding horses- lol and we talked about the oxy/ but because I did not have a "due date" - we waited- I know she did not breed- so if there would happen to be a baby, it would be from a breeding I never owned her at the time- I have never bred her- but she is getting quite upset again, and heading to her "spot" so I think another slug is on the way I wish my vet was not out of town and there are no others
if nothing else- she is teaching me yet another lesson - but why always me, and my strange chams-

 

[little leaf]

the last 5 I HOPE

I sure hope she is done- she has been quite for the last few hours( I have not heard anything- I have had her cage covered) - she has had 6 slugs this am/afternoon - so that is 4 on day 1, 6 on day 2 and 6 on day 3 - that is what I found for sure anyway - poor tired Olive she, and her cage is covered in yokey stuff - but I am not messing with her today- she still looks kinda big tho- I will be SO glad when the vet sees her Monday - she keeps looking at me like this is MY fault- lol
I am just going to put the cover back on her cage, and let her alone - I can tell she is wore out

 

[LLGabriel]

Aww what a hard working sweetie. You are doing everything you can. Hopefully the vet visit will go good. We are all thinking about you guys.

 

[teejayteej]

Just wanted o cheek with you his morning ... Hope she doing ok? Let us know something when you can.

 

[Dr O]

hi leaf, what a crappy situation! your girl really should have an ultrasound and bloodwork asap. an u/s will give a much better picture inside than an xray, and cbc would reveal coelomitis issues. I'm happy to hear she is hungry as coelomitis usually makes them so sick that food isn't wanted. if she will eat I would let her eat as much as she wants and make sure it's well loaded with calcium. as for her looking "bigger", coelomitis will often do that but sometimes they're just keeping their air sacs expanded to help push out any material in the oviducts.

please update tomorrow and good luck!

o-

 

[little leaf]

hi leaf, what a crappy situation! your girl really should have an ultrasound and bloodwork asap. an u/s will give a much better picture inside than an xray, and cbc would reveal coelomitis issues. I'm happy to hear she is hungry as coelomitis usually makes them so sick that food isn't wanted. if she will eat I would let her eat as much as she wants and make sure it's well loaded with calcium. as for her looking "bigger", coelomitis will often do that but sometimes they're just keeping their air sacs expanded to help push out any material in the oviducts.

please update tomorrow and good luck!

o-

you bet she is going in on Monday,as well as one of my panthers - I also want to be sure everything is out of her & all is well, so she will be one irritated cham on Monday- lol but I did talk to a vet today also, and she also said if her uterus had ruptured the slugs would most likely not be exiting the vent- she is relaxed pretty much now- but I am taking her in no matter what- if I do not, I will not be able to relax - lol

the only thing I do not understand, is why so many days at this ? last time, she was done in less than 2 hrs- and she had 6 babies, and 5 slugs~ ??

 

[little leaf]

the sad noise

17 slugs now - and she is still making that sad noise - the vid/ is dark, its night, she is still up I have her cage covered , so I taped her , but most of the vid is black until I used a dim light to see if anything came out - but it still has not- I will try to get a better vid/ in the day of her making the noise , she puts her thought kinda weird when she dose it- she has also made this noise when I take her from her outside tree - not often, but anyway- now you can hear it too - sorry the vid/ is mostly black - I will try to get one in the am of her -

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=632895300076758&set=vb.100000688817359&type=2&theater

 

[pigglett79]

Oh that poor girl. That sound makes me sad for her. Must be miserable. I hope she gets past this quickly.

 

[Lathelia]

My male panther made a similar noise few days ago. He had a small wound I wanted to check. I grabbed him gently, but firmly and he made that sound. I'm not sure if he was scared or hurt (I don't think I've hurt him).

As for the head bobbing, my girl does that when I spray water and she hates it!

 

[LLGabriel]

Poor Olive. That sound is pitiful. I hope we get some good news today. <3

 

[CLP]

I just came across this post today. I am so sorry your girl is going through this. Please let us know how it goes today. I will keep Olive in my thoughts. Good luck.

 

[deadhd5]

Cheryl, just wanted to let you know that you and Olive are in my thoughts this morning and I will be anxiously awaiting news from the vet. Hang in there..

 

[xbrokenbabydoll]

I read the whole thing and I am sorry that is happening to your girl! I really hope the vet will be able to let you know if she's going to be okay and what was happening. I wish you and Olive the best of luck and please let us know what happens at the vet.

 

[little leaf]

UPDATE from last night - 5 more slugs * some pics are a bit graphic

Olive had 5 more slugs last night - so now that makes 21 over this starting the 4th day - they have been from yoke that just ran out of her- to over sized ( an inch long ! with fetal tissue/ babies in them ) I just do not know what to think, or do - but, I talked with the vet office again this AM, as has a Jax expert also given advice , and she is NOT going to the vet today- I trust and agree with the reasons : she is passing the slugs on her own , she is eating , drinking , basking - she is very tired and wore out- but the stress of taking her in, may just be to much for her - she is very weak, but still strong- does that make sense? I know she is not done yet- I can still see lumps,bumps under her skin - and to remove her from her cage , just may make her stop - I asked about getting her spayed, just to get this all over- she is to weak - but if she should happen to " crash" , then I will risk it- otherwise, surgery is not advised - she now has the apt/ for Thur - she has not squeaked today ( I am glad- that just rips my heart out when she does that ) she has been to her laying spot already this am - but I do not know if she has had another slug- I am trying to say as much away as I can - I feel like I SHOULD be doing SOMETHING- but the best thing for her is just sportive - and letting her do this at her own pace - she does seem better this AM - I can tell she can breath much more easily - but I now she is not done yet- I will keep everyone posted - I have to leave her this afternoon- not that I want to - but my husband had a scaffolding break out from under him yesterday - I told him stop being such a baby - its only a broken leg - JUST KIDDING - he would not go to the Dr yesterday- but one night of pain on the couch, he is ready to go ( why are you men like that !!! ??? - lol )

I will keep everyone posted- and Thank you all for your well wishes - I really appreciate it- and know we are not done yet ~ she has went to her "spot" 3 times, but comes right back out-

this pics are of last nights slugs - you can see how they very in size- and whats in them- I am trying to document as much of this as I can , so if ever there should be another like this , at least there is some info on it- but NO ONE I have spoke with has ever heard of anything like this- of course, we are talking about Olive - and she has been unique from the moment she came out of the box with her leg on backwards !

 

[CLP]

Thank you for updating us. I have been worrying about poor Olive. It's amazing how much you can worry about a chameleon you've never even met!

For what it's worth, I think you are making the right decision about the vet appointment. You certainly have a lot on your hands right now! Good luck with all of it, and keep us posted on your girl.

 

[laurie]

Yuk! I see what you mean about the unformed fetus. Poop Olive. I have no clue what she is doing, but it doesn't sound like anyone else does either. Sorry I didn't know more Jackson experts.

Let me know when you get home with Dave & how he is. Then give me the update on our girl.

 

[deadhd5]

Sammy is patiently waiting to hear about his momma's vet visit, hoping for good news

 

[Dr O]

hi leaf, glad to hear that she’s still hanging in there!!

i think it’s very cool that your vet is concerned enough about her stress and keeping an eye on things from afar for you, it’s great to have that backup! with that being said, i for one really wish she had a CBC done (can literally be 2 drops of blood if necessary) as the potential need for antibiotics could be a dramatic game changer…..not trying to scare you, but do want you to be fully informed for your best decision. same goes with an ultrasound. my concern was never that her uterus ruptured since she is passing slugs regularly, but 9 times out of 10 the mess is in the ovaries and not the uterus, and that is what the bloodwork and u/s would be for. (that’s why housecall herp vets rule!! are you SURE that there’s no one in your area who could get the blood or do an ultrasound at your home? wish you were here!!)

otherwise i completely agree w/ no oxytocin/arginine since she’s doing everything on her own and those enhanced contractions could cause a yolk coelomitis if it’s not already there. but i would strongly suggest supplementing her w/ additional calcium; she must have high levels to keep her contractions up otherwise they will stop, and that would be bad. your vet can call in NeoCalGlucon for you (small amount for a few bucks), or you can use Repashy’s RescueCal, but imo she should be getting daily doses immediately. i’m sure there are many women reading this who can appreciate what days of contractions must feel like!! she needs calcium to keep it up. she has done remarkably well considering; let’s get her through this and back on her feet!

o-

p.s.-“yolk” is the interioir of an egg. “yoke” is the typically wooden harness around the neck of cattle for pulling carts and whatnot.

 

[laurie]

Sammy is patiently waiting to hear about his momma's vet visit, hoping for good news

That is about the cutest face around. Tell him his Momma is going to be fine. Then we will all hope it is true.

 

[little leaf]

hi leaf, glad to hear that she’s still hanging in there!!

i think it’s very cool that your vet is concerned enough about her stress and keeping an eye on things from afar for you, it’s great to have that backup! with that being said, i for one really wish she had a CBC done (can literally be 2 drops of blood if necessary) as the potential need for antibiotics could be a dramatic game changer…..not trying to scare you, but do want you to be fully informed for your best decision. same goes with an ultrasound. my concern was never that her uterus ruptured since she is passing slugs regularly, but 9 times out of 10 the mess is in the ovaries and not the uterus, and that is what the bloodwork and u/s would be for. (that’s why housecall herp vets rule!! are you SURE that there’s no one in your area who could get the blood or do an ultrasound at your home? wish you were here!!)

otherwise i completely agree w/ no oxytocin/arginine since she’s doing everything on her own and those enhanced contractions could cause a yolk coelomitis if it’s not already there. but i would strongly suggest supplementing her w/ additional calcium; she must have high levels to keep her contractions up otherwise they will stop, and that would be bad. your vet can call in NeoCalGlucon for you (small amount for a few bucks), or you can use Repashy’s RescueCal, but imo she should be getting daily doses immediately. i’m sure there are many women reading this who can appreciate what days of contractions must feel like!! she needs calcium to keep it up. she has done remarkably well considering; let’s get her through this and back on her feet!

o-

p.s.-“yolk” is the interioir of an egg. “yoke” is the typically wooden harness around the neck of cattle for pulling carts and whatnot.

oh yes, when she goes in on Thur/ - she is not going to be happy- we are checking everything- giving her "the works" lol - its was just that so far, she is holding her own, and at her last apt/ - she got so bent out of shape her heart rate got so high we had to put her back in her box and let her settle down, and then continue the exam - so he knows how drama Queen she is - it feels "wrong" not to take her right now- but I also understand what he means about letting her alone right now- I wish I were down by you too- lol- I really , REALLY appreciate your input - I am suppose to talk to him later tonight - and I am going to ask him about the NeoCalGlucon - I was also very worried about the yoLk - (lol - I am so tired, yoke - yolk - ) getting stuck inside - at times it just dripped from her- so it has to be a mess in there.
To bad I did not catch that air fair glitch- ( $5 tickets to just about anyplace! ) I would have made her an apt/ with you !! I will make sure I get her some extra cal/ right away - thanks so much for your help Dr. O