I started gutloading the bsfl and this happened

L

Lindasjackson

Chameleon Enthusiast
Their substrate they came in turned to mud! Why? I just left some carrot, arugula, and red pepper in there for them to eat. I think I’m going to freeze these off and buy fresh and not feed them because this is just a mess and how can this be health for the bsfl or my Cham?
 
Bsfl tend to decompose food pretty fast, and all that moisture in the fruits and veggies pretty much goes straight into the soil once consumed. I made the same mistake that you did when I first tried them out. Everything ended up becoming super moist which allowed the bsfl to climb up the walls and ceiling of the container.

Bsfl are nutritious enough that you don't need to gutload them. But if you do want to gutload them, add a small amount of food and then allow the container to dry out a bit.
 
I mostly cup feed and my girl didn't use to bother with them until recently. But it's pretty cool letting some pupate into flies ( they don't bite or sting and they aren't that fast. And let her actually hunt I feel she gets more exercise and is more mentally stimulation
 
Mendez said:
Bsfl tend to decompose food pretty fast, and all that moisture in the fruits and veggies pretty much goes straight into the soil once consumed. I made the same mistake that you did when I first tried them out. Everything ended up becoming super moist which allowed the bsfl to climb up the walls and ceiling of the container.

Bsfl are nutritious enough that you don't need to gutload them. But if you do want to gutload them, add a small amount of food and then allow the container to dry out a bit.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you a little here my friend. I feel it's a misconception that BSFL are nutritious and don't need/shouldn't be gutloaded. They are marketed for their calcium to phosphorus ratio and that's why they say no need to dust. Which could even be debatable because many of us have seen how hard they can be to digest. Besides that though, the calcium isn't usually what we gutload for, we gutload for a lot of other micronutrients. So I think it is beneficial to still feed them well, just do it in smaller amounts or use more dry substrate with them to counter the moisture.

To Linda, they are decomposers. Chameleons feed on bugs that eat poop, dead rotten animals, dirt, etc all day in the wild. That's nature and there are a lot of nutrients to it. I do get that it's a pain when they get muddy, just give less. You're doing your cham a favor by feeding the BSFL a bit of something healthy, studies show insects do retain some nutrients by being fed healthy diets.
 
Well, I have to agree with you here. I figured that they were already high in micronutrients since people in the past said that they didn't need to be gutloaded. But I guess I took their logic without questioning it. It does make sense that gutloading them would be beneficial. I guess it also depends on a person's thought process for gutloading in the first place since some people seem to think gutloading is for the bug's sake and not really focused on micronutrients that would be delivered to the chameleon. From an observational perspective, it seems like they don't really need food to metamorphose into a fly (while other insects either die or stop growing w/o food), so I guess I used this to confirm other people's reasons for not gutloading them.

Either way, I'm down to discuss. I'll hop back on the forums a little later. Right now, I'm on the fence. Someone save me...or feel free to let me die here. Or shall we all die together...?
 
Well, I can't argue with that, gutloading them can't hurt regardless of whether the cham uses the micronutrients or not (in regards to bsfl). I'll start recommending that people gutload them. I'm just curious if the bsfl actually need it though to be structurally healthy for a cham to consume. Gutloading other insects make sense for growth, but bsfl I'm not so sure about. But yes, I do agree that it can't hurt.

@kinyonga, I'd be curious in your thoughts.
 
@Mendez ...I thing every insect that can be fed food should be just to keep it healthy for the chameleon. You'll notice I always say feed/gutload...because I think the chameleon should be fed a healthy diet as well as being full of good things when fed to the chameleon. As you said...it can't hurt.
 
Mendez said:
Well, I can't argue with that, gutloading them can't hurt regardless of whether the cham uses the micronutrients or not (in regards to bsfl). I'll start recommending that people gutload them. I'm just curious if the bsfl actually need it though to be structurally healthy for a cham to consume. Gutloading other insects make sense for growth, but bsfl I'm not so sure about. But yes, I do agree that it can't hurt.

@kinyonga, I'd be curious in your thoughts.
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I'm sure they are healthy. It's probably not a big deal to miss feeding a few. More about the habit of feeding everything to give it optimal nutrition. I'm not worried about you in the slightest, but I've seen many people on the forums and social media go ahead and only feed BSFL, or feed them as a large staple, because they think they're some kind of superfood that doesn't need any dusting or food. Mostly due to the marketing on them.
 
Okay, I will just cut back on how much I give them to eat. Funny thing is though, as soon as I started gutloading them they stopped pupating into flies! Funny thing is as soon as I started gutloading them they stopped pupating into flies! A couple weeks ago I would get a fly or two every day.
 
Would it slso be fair to say that when we say variety is best that this be done every feed so not just locusts one day then dubia the next blah blah but a combination of feeders every feed
 
Really? I didn’t know. I’ve just been giving crickets one day, roaches the next, then bsfl the next. I do need to get more bsfl though because I froze the muddy mess I had. They stunk to!
 
They are quite a big thing. A couple of companies have started mass breeding them feeding waste food than would normally go to the dump and the bsfl being used by fishery farms . Lol 😆 incase anyone is interested
 
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