I NEED HELP ASAP

[cyberlocc]

to you get your information? You really need to read scientific papers and not rely on group think.

That is not a paper IMO, that is proceedings of a conference. Anyway I would accept that as credible, which is what you are getting at I think.

I linked to you earlier, http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

That is written by Vets, and the information of symptoms are referenced from "Chameleons and vitamin A. Journal of Herpetological Medicine and Surgery, 2003", Which is also a scientific paper.

 

[cyberlocc]

I should mention, My cham which Is not falling off from branches. Does have the symptoms of Vit A issues that both my and your source contain. The eye issues, RIs, and lack of eating. The cham has barely ate since the receiving. Has had RI troubles, and has been closing its eyes for short periods also since receiving.

I only say this, and I have seen other threads with people from the same supplier having the same issues, going back to 2010. So if the jacksons was a LTC or CB or CBB, then the Vit A issues seem common with this supplier.

 

[jajeanpierre]

The pictures and descriptions of the animals they received, compared to the photos of the animals that you were sold, and that were available through the website. Yes, that shipment was pathetic.

I have to respectfully disagree. It think the biggest problem with that import was a lot of people medicated upon arrival. It's one of the quickest ways to kill an animal. Don't blame the import when you medicate right out of the box. Also, photos on web sites are usually bs photos of some other animal's photo taken from an internet search. The importer didn't ever put up photos of any of the animals as far as I know.

Here's a picture of a recent import I bought. JPowell86 was with me when I bought him. He saw him, weak in my hands before I bought him, discussing how weak he was and would he make it. I bought him anyway because he was a gracilior. I left the two stronger gracilior males for two other breeders. He could barely hold himself up under the misters in that picture. He really was that weak. He breathed in mist until three in the morning. In three weeks he gained over 7 grams when I last weighed him May 27, going from 23.5g several days after purchase and after he was hydrated to 30.5g May 27. I know he's gained more. Joel didn't believe it was the same animal when he saw him last week.

The second picture is of another of my "better animals" that I supposedly get. I have at least one other like her, maybe two. In general, I don't put in photos of my beat up animals or don't include the beat up part in the photo. Remember that pretty orange-headed gracilior I posted the picture of? Have a look at his sail fin. I posted a picture that didn't show his sail.

 

[Daypaul]

W.W.J.D.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I should mention, My cham which Is not falling off from branches. Does have the symptoms of Vit A issues that both my and your source contain. The eye issues, RIs, and lack of eating. The cham has barely ate since the receiving. Has had RI troubles, and has been closing its eyes for short periods also since receiving.

I only say this, and I have seen other threads with people from the same supplier having the same issues, going back to 2010. So if the jacksons was a LTC or CB or CBB, then the Vit A issues seem common with this supplier.

I would not count on gut loading to ever correct Vitamin A deficiency since chameleons cannot convert the precursor of Vitamin A (from plant materials) into Vitamin A. Insects are poor sources of Vitamin A.

Vitamin A deficiency is a problem with chameleons and not just one supplier. It didn't kill that Jacksons!

 

[jajeanpierre]

I should mention, My cham which Is not falling off from branches. Does have the symptoms of Vit A issues that both my and your source contain. The eye issues, RIs, and lack of eating. The cham has barely ate since the receiving. Has had RI troubles, and has been closing its eyes for short periods also since receiving.

I only say this, and I have seen other threads with people from the same supplier having the same issues, going back to 2010. So if the jacksons was a LTC or CB or CBB, then the Vit A issues seem common with this supplier.

Your chameleon might also be showing ill health from the cumulative effects of stress. Just throwing a few things out there for you to think about.

 

[Daypaul]

I'm sorry for your loss. I had a bunny friend pass this week so don't feel like the lone ranger on the grief train. I'm not going to restate the already stated stuff. But I hope you read it all and more so read much more, remember you can never know to much, well I think my wife might sometimes but that's another story... remember this new cham NEEDS you. Good luck light and love to you and yours.


I've got to say this thread was a seat clincher I felt almost every emotion at some point well maybe not jeolosy but all the others. I would sticky this mofo. Don't be a stranger around here, ask questions, read, and enjoy your chameleon.

 

[Daypaul]

O yea jajeanpierre nice to see another poultry and cham owner! Sorry to derail back to condolences and what not.

 

[cyberlocc]

Your chameleon might also be showing ill health from the cumulative effects of stress. Just throwing a few things out there for you to think about.

Well yes, we had went over that. Tried that, Put a blanket over her cage all day everyday for a week she had zero sight of anyone. I put some food in the mornings and then shut the drape and turned on the lights. Still same, I dont know if she was sleeping as I didn't see her. But she defiantly was not really eating.

She eats, just very very little. She will eat like 1 or 2 food items (usually super worms) once every few days and that is it. She was showing beginning signs of a URI, IO gave reptaid those signs have went away now (just ended the 10 days)

This didn't all start recently, it has been going on since I got her a month or so ago. As to the supplier, I was under the impression that vit a issues are from poor supplementing, and intensified by poor care to generations.

Disclaimer she was on sale, for pretty cheap, actually very cheap, so ya, I think I now know why.

Oh and I got a fecal done she was negative for parasites. The vet doesn't have experience with chams, and she doesn't show the behavior all the time. Some days she is active and seems fine then the next she is sluggish and sleeps closing eyes ect, then fine the next. The vet said she would try to ask some friends and get back with me.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Well yes, we had went over that. Tried that, Put a blanket over her cage all day everyday for a week she had zero sight of anyone. I put some food in the mornings and then shut the drape and turned on the lights. Still same, I dont know if she was sleeping as I didn't see her. But she defiantly was not really eating.

She eats, just very very little. She will eat like 1 or 2 food items (usually super worms) once every few days and that is it. She was showing beginning signs of a URI, IO gave reptaid those signs have went away now (just ended the 10 days)

This didn't all start recently, it has been going on since I got her a month or so ago. As to the supplier, I was under the impression that vit a issues are from poor supplementing, and intensified by poor care to generations.

Disclaimer she was on sale, for pretty cheap, actually very cheap, so ya, I think I now know why.

Oh and I got a fecal done she was negative for parasites. The vet doesn't have experience with chams, and she doesn't show the behavior all the time. Some days she is active and seems fine then the next she is sluggish and sleeps closing eyes ect, then fine the next. The vet said she would try to ask some friends and get back with me.

Stress can be a lot of things. It can be too much cover. It can be too little cover. It can be a few degrees too warm or too cold. Get the habitat and the husbandry right not only for the species but for the individual and you will have a healthy chameleon. Really think about what kind of a chameleon it is, where does it live in the wild. Does it want to be high? Low? Some species like a lot of cover others want wide open spaces.

Have your vet look for coccidia. It isn't all that easy to find. I can't remember how it can be best detected but do a search on it. I believe the stool sample has to be really really fresh and maybe a smear, not a float. I really don't know--you will have to look up how to get coccidia diagnosed. I do know it is hard to find and a fresh sample is very important.

If the animal is not thriving, go to a reptile vet.

How much does she weigh? How old is she and how much has she gained in your care? One superworm is a lot of food.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Jeeeze Put this thread to rest already. The OP has already given up on the first cham and moved on to a new one. Now this is just all armchair quarterbacking. You wonder why I rarely come out. . .

Nice pics by the way Janet. Concerning the animal with the severe nose rub have you considered a temporary bandage or plug?

 

[cyberlocc]

Stress can be a lot of things. It can be too much cover. It can be too little cover. It can be a few degrees too warm or too cold. Get the habitat and the husbandry right not only for the species but for the individual and you will have a healthy chameleon. Really think about what kind of a chameleon it is, where does it live in the wild. Does it want to be high? Low? Some species like a lot of cover others want wide open spaces.

Have your vet look for coccidia. It isn't all that easy to find. I can't remember how it can be best detected but do a search on it. I believe the stool sample has to be really really fresh and maybe a smear, not a float. I really don't know--you will have to look up how to get coccidia diagnosed. I do know it is hard to find and a fresh sample is very important.

If the animal is not thriving, go to a reptile vet.

How much does she weigh? How old is she and how much has she gained in your care? One superworm is a lot of food.

Hey I think the habitat is pretty good for the species, and she seems to like it?

I dont know if the vet looked for that I will have to see.

I took her to a reptile Vet, the Vet knows nothing about Chameleons. I live in a small town in the middle of nowhere so that complicates things lol.

She weighs 2.8 grams, I just finally got the scale on Monday, I ordered it awhile ago (few weeks) but it got lost by USPS or "misplaced" or whatever lol. So I weighed her and the vet weighed her at the same on Saturday. So not sure how much she has gained, she has shed but doesn't seemed to have grown. I dont know how old she is I never got an answer, but when I got her and made a post the guesses were 1.5-2 months, so that would put her around 2.5--3 months now. The seller said no less than 2 months but they are just a middle man and they dont know.

The supers are very small, They are baby supers, like less than 1/2 inch long, I try to mix them up and give her some half an in and some smaller, she seems to take either or. But only 1 or 2.

OCK is right, PM jean if you dont mind/have the time. thanks.

 

[Daypaul]

I understand where you are coming from old cham keeper I for one wish you would participate more, not everyone is hopeless and most are just ill informed. Don't let a few bad apples cause the whole fruit basket to be thrown out. Perhaps someone somewhere is just one thread away from doing the right thing, I really like the saying he who speaks does not know, he who knows does not speak. And do agree that most don't listen but some do. Most people are taught from an early age that pets are disposable and for our enjoyment, so in this case who is wrong, them, there teachers, there teachers teachers or those of us who saw the wrong and didn't step in.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Jeeeze Put this thread to rest already. The OP has already given up on the first cham and moved on to a new one. Now this is just all armchair quarterbacking. You wonder why I rarely come out. . .

Nice pics by the way Janet. Concerning the animal with the severe nose rub have you considered a temporary bandage or plug?

I showed the picture to the vet and asked if I should put anything on it and she thought not. It actually looks pretty healed, just really ugly. They are tough, tough, tough animals. I think I have at least another with as bad a rub but I haven't looked too closely at them. I know I have quite a few with very bad nose rubs. Surprisingly I also have a young gracilior male with a big tall perfect sail fin and dorsal crest and beautiful horns.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

They can be tough animals but only in the right hands, or tomato plant fertilizer in the wrong hands. Anyway if it looks healed that's even better. Plugging that gap where the two sets of teeth come together and covering the exposed teeth can be helpful but it's up to you. You can send me a PM if you want, I'd not post info like this where some 13 year old is going to read it anyway.

 

[TheVeiledProphet]

That is not a paper IMO, that is proceedings of a conference. Anyway I would accept that as credible, which is what you are getting at I think.

I linked to you earlier, http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

That is written by Vets, and the information of symptoms are referenced from "Chameleons and vitamin A. Journal of Herpetological Medicine and Surgery, 2003", Which is also a scientific paper.

You should see some of the "papers" written by researchers who select a pool of peer reviewed journal publications in different fields and they attempt to replicate the results presented in the "papers". The percentage of "papers" that were unable to be replicated and independently verified is shocking. The pressure to publish or perish often obscures genuine discoveries. The well is too poisoned.
I would trust a bunch of Internet chameleon freaks over a bunch of trustafarian, associate professor, mansey-pansey , Ivey league, hipster-fraud, who just makes up their research to fit whatever bourgeoisie, blind capitalist ideology zombies any day.

 

[jajeanpierre]

You should see some of the "papers" written by researchers who select a pool of peer reviewed journal publications in different fields and they attempt to replicate the results presented in the "papers". The percentage of "papers" that were unable to be replicated and independently verified is shocking. The pressure to publish or perish often obscures genuine discoveries. The well is too poisoned.
I would trust a bunch of Internet chameleon freaks over a bunch of trustafarian, associate professor, mansey-pansey , Ivey league, hipster-fraud, who just makes up their research to fit whatever bourgeoisie, blind capitalist ideology zombies any day.

A lot of internet chameleon freaks have trouble keeping their one single captive bred panther or veiled healthy. I would be careful where you place your trust.

 

[WAMBO]

You should see some of the "papers" written by researchers who select a pool of peer reviewed journal publications in different fields and they attempt to replicate the results presented in the "papers". The percentage of "papers" that were unable to be replicated and independently verified is shocking. The pressure to publish or perish often obscures genuine discoveries. The well is too poisoned.
I would trust a bunch of Internet chameleon freaks over a bunch of trustafarian, associate professor, mansey-pansey , Ivey league, hipster-fraud, who just makes up their research to fit whatever bourgeoisie, blind capitalist ideology zombies any day.

Actually, most college associate and full professors are liberals. I used to be surprised that many scientific papers were not reproducible, but no longer. What does surprise me is that the exact opposite will be reported just a few years later.

 

[Daypaul]

everything is fake nothing is set in stone. look within every answer is already there you just have to find it. question everything, even yourself. All truths are subjective.

 

[TheVeiledProphet]

everything is fake nothing is set in stone. look within every answer is already there you just have to find it. question everything, even yourself. All truths are subjective.

Tru dat