Hydration Issues

[svs421]

Looking for some advice regarding hydration. I have a 1 year old male panther who lives is a 24x24x48 screen enclosure with 2 sides covered to help keep humidity in. He has a few large natural plants along with a bunch of vines at all levels. Basking temp is thermostat controlled to stay at 90 and it decreases down to around 73 at the floor. I use a T5-H0 5.0 UVB bulb. Misting sessions are via my mist king unit and set to go off every 2.5 hours 5 times a day for 1.5 minutes each session. there is also a dripper going 24/7. All water is set up to run onto the plant leaves and drip their way down to the lower level. I indirectly shower him once a week for 20 minutes.

My issue is, despite all of the watering, he is dehydrated. He only goes to the bathroom once a week and his urate has been quite orange and hard. I even tried increasing his hornworm feelings hoping that would help some. I am not sure what else I can do to remedy this and am worried that he will develop kidney issues.

 

[the3hornedjackson42]

Hi there! Have you tried to put him in the shower yet? What is the humidity in his cage?

 

[svs421]

Hi there! Have you tried to put him in the shower yet? What is the humidity in his cage?

Yup, I put him in the shower once a week for around 20 minutes or so. The humidity in his cage varies but reaches around 50% when the humidifier is going. Then it drops as low as 20%. With all of the live plants, misting sessions, and the dripper I question the accuracy of the hydrometer. The only time the humidity in his house has measured nice and high is when the bedroom door has been shut for hours and the room looks like a foggy haze.

 

[the3hornedjackson42]

Yup, I put him in the shower once a week for around 20 minutes or so. The humidity in his cage varies but reaches around 50% when the humidifier is going. Then it drops as low as 20%. With all of the live plants, misting sessions, and the dripper I question the accuracy of the hydrometer. The only time the humidity in his house has measured nice and high is when the bedroom door has been shut for hours and the room looks like a foggy haze.

Hmmmmm may I ask what type of hygrometer do you use? Becaus if it's the gauge type they usually are really inconsistent, maybe try an electronic one?

 

[svs421]

Hmmmmm may I ask what type of hygrometer do you use? Becaus if it's the gauge type they usually are really inconsistent, maybe try an electronic one?

Yes, it is a gauge one. Low end for sure. I have been looking at the digital ones but I keep hearing mixed reviews on those too. I have a household hydrometer in the room itself to measure the relative humidity in the room, and is why I have a humidifier going all afternoon now. I figured if the room measured at 50% he would would be good to go.

I am stumped... He won't drink when I am around and when I have caught him drinking he shoots his tongue out at the droplets instead of lapping at the water like my other Cham did. I can't get him to drink from a syringe because he is so tame that he won't gape his mouth open at me for anything lol. He just sits there with his mouth clamped shut and won't lick the drops from the outside of his mouth.

The only other thing I can think of is to amp his misting sessions up from the 1.5 minute intervals he is on now. My concern with that is flooding things out (I do have a catch bin for the excess water but it would fill super fast ) and then there is also the risk of an upper respiratory infection.

 

[the3hornedjackson42]

Yeah Hmmm I'm not too sure if what to do right now so hopefully someone with better experience than me can help you!

 

[brownie64]

I really don't know what could wrong everything you are doing it should be hydrated. I thought about trying this hooked up to a cool mist humidifier. It's about $18 on Ebay, and controls the humidity.

 

[svs421]

View attachment 146261
I really don't know what could wrong everything you are doing it should be hydrated. I thought about trying this hooked up to a cool mist humidifier. It's about $18 on Ebay, and controls the humidity.

I might have to try that. The cool mist humidifier I have has a hydrometer that allows me to set the humidity level it will reach and maintain within the space. Who knows how accurate it really is though. This would be a good test!

 

[JamesBryan]

It sounds like you're doing everything right.

He should be drinking.

Maybe there's an underlying issue somewhere, illness maybe? Is he healthy apart from dehydration?

 

[MissLissa]

Can you post a recent picture of him?

How much are you feeding him and how often? What is your supplementation schedule? Has he been checked for parasites?

The GI tract is built to dehydrate urates, fecal matter, etc.The longer it sits in the system, the more "dehydrated" it becomes. So it's possible that your chameleon is properly hydrated, but that the urates are being retained too long. Constipated chams or chams who are not "going" often enough will also often have orange urates. Alternately, there may be something brewing in his system that's preventing him from becoming properly hydrated.

My young adult panther cham "goes" every day, or maybe every 2nd day on occasion, just as a comparison.

On the hygrometer note: the digital probe ones are generally more accurate than the gauge ones. The cheap ExoTerra ones I've found to be kind of okay: they are +- 10-15% or so, but much better than the analog dial gauges. Those I've seen to be +- 40% or more! Generally, the more expensive your reader, the more accurate they get. (PS: "hygrometer" is the word you are looking for; it measures the relative moisture in the atmosphere, while a "hydrometer" tests the specific gravity of a liquid )

 

[svs421]

It sounds like you're doing everything right.

He should be drinking.

Maybe there's an underlying issue somewhere, illness maybe? Is he healthy apart from dehydration?

He seems healthy otherwise, yes. He was constipated for a couple of weeks and then went about a week ago (finally). When he went again yesterday I had hoped for whiter urates.

 

[svs421]

Can you post a recent picture of him?

How much are you feeding him and how often? What is your supplementation schedule? Has he been checked for parasites?

The GI tract is built to dehydrate urates, fecal matter, etc.The longer it sits in the system, the more "dehydrated" it becomes. So it's possible that your chameleon is properly hydrated, but that the urates are being retained too long. Constipated chams or chams who are not "going" often enough will also often have orange urates. Alternately, there may be something brewing in his system that's preventing him from becoming properly hydrated.

My young adult panther cham "goes" every day, or maybe every 2nd day on occasion, just as a comparison.

On the hygrometer note: the digital probe ones are generally more accurate than the gauge ones. The cheap ExoTerra ones I've found to be kind of okay: they are +- 10-15% or so, but much better than the analog dial gauges. Those I've seen to be +- 40% or more! Generally, the more expensive your reader, the more accurate they get. (PS: "hygrometer" is the word you are looking for; it measures the relative moisture in the atmosphere, while a "hydrometer" tests the specific gravity of a liquid )

He eats every second day on average - hornworms, silkworms, crickets, waxworms, butters, and phoenix are alternated but I have been feeding more horns and silks lately because he has been on a cricket strike. I have wondered if the worms are somehow causing some issues with his ability to poop regularly. He was constipated a couple weeks ago and finally went after almost 10 days - when he went again yesterday I had hoped for whiter urates. I supplement with calcium without D3 or Phosphorus every feeding except for one day a week when I use Repashy Calcium Plus.

I haven't had him checked for internal parasites yet. That is definitely my next step. This has just crept up and I have been hoping it was just a constipation problem that would resolve itself. My exotics vet is a couple hours away so I run the dilemma of getting a fresh stool sample the day I go there.

Haha, thanx for the Hygrometer clarification - as I was typing I questioned which was right haha. I will post a picture asap

 

[MissLissa]

EDITED: I think we posted at the same time!

Constipation with hornworms would be unusual: usually they cause looser stool, Hm. A fecal float with you reptile vet is never a bad idea, that's for sure!

You know, filling out the "how to ask for help" form might be a good idea in this case- just to give everyone a better picture of whats going on. You can find it here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

Also, the supplementation schedule is generally calsium without D# every feeding, calcium WITH D3 twice a month, and a multivitamin twice a month. Wou may be over supplementing with the once-weekly calcium plus. That may or may not contribute to the consitpation.

You may want to ask a moderator to move this thread to the "Chameleon Health" section- there are a ton of really experienced people who watch those threads for questions like these.

 

[svs421]

These are from a few minutes ago -

 

[jehovahgmolah]

Sometimes I have to drip water from a syringe on Vinny's nose for a couple of minutes, about 5 seconds in between drops; for a few minutes before he realizes he is thirsty. Or take him in the bathroom with the sound of water running and do that. Also if too humid/steamy bathroom when I try to increase his humidity to digest or help him shed, that can dehydrate them too. They have to have a right balace of heat,vitamins, UVB or UVA and humidity to be on top of their game.

 

[MissLissa]

He doesn't look dehydrated to me- his turrets are nice and full, etc. I'd suspect the issue is less that he is not drinking, and more that the feces are sitting too long. Have you consulted with a vet about the constipation? If not, I definitely would, and maybe ask a moderator to move this thread to the "Health" section: failing that, you could open a new thread there to ask for more advice. There are a couple vets that lurk on there too