How often to switch type of feeder bug?

[WashingtonCham]

I have a 3 month old male ambilobe panther. I know I’m supposed to rotate feeders I was just curious if I should be trying to feed him a different kind every day every week? Obviously there’s only so many but should I rotate daily weekly or does it really matter? The breeder I got them from just says 10-15 small crickets a day but I know that’s just because they are trying to simplify it for new keepers

 

[nightanole]

You dont really have to rotate. You kinda want a "trail mix" at least once a week. The problem comes when you over feed one staple, and they get "bored" of said staple. Then you have a food strike on your hands, and your last hope is they will eat other feeders. So you can have mostly crickets, but you better make sure they will eat at least some meal worms or dubia or silkworms, or something , each week.

 

[WashingtonCham]

You dont really have to rotate. You kinda want a "trail mix" at least once a week. The problem comes when you over feed one staple, and they get "bored" of said staple. Then you have a food strike on your hands, and your last hope is they will eat other feeders. So you can have mostly crickets, but you better make sure they will eat at least some meal worms or dubia or silkworms, or something , each week.

Ok yah I have a Dubia colony that I’m just letting breed for a couple more weeks before I start feeding them off. And I’m planning on starting a cricket colony as well.

 

[snitz427]

I tried to have 2-3 foods for my young chams. I'd highly recommend black soldier fly larva (probably smalls or medium for a 3 month old)... my guys would eat several of them each day plus their crickets. They're easy to feed and high enough in calcium that you don't need to dust them. My guys love them, too! You could try micro/small superworms, as well. They are cheap and have a really long shelf life, but its recommended they not make up more than 20% of their diet. I also gave them a SMALL hornworm now and then, but it was hard to find them small enough at that age, and they grow so quickly they're not worth buying until they're older.

Based on my experience with 2 young vieleds, and what I've learned along the way, I'd recommend the following...

- order your feeders online. Even with shipping charges, it is far less expensive then the pet store, much better quality, and wider selection. (I really like rainbowmealworms.com for my staple feeders, although I am now raising my own)

- I would make my staple feeder a rotation of: small crickets, small dubia roaches, black soldier fly larva, micro/small superworms in that order. The only one I would limit would be superworms (use them as desert).

- I wouldn't waste my time buying small hornworms unless you have multiple chams where you can feed them off in a day or two.

-If you are up for raising your own, silkworms have been easy for us and would be great to throw into the rotation!

- don't waste your time on wax worms or butter worms yet, or at all.

 

[snitz427]

I do rotate, also. My guys lived on crickets as their main staple for the first few months and definitely burned out. Now I rotate (every 2 days) between:

crickets & hornworms
dubias & black soldier fly larva
silkworms & superworms

Depending on what I have excess of they might get silkworms or crickets back to back, but I try to offer something different at every feeding, and try to make it a combination of crunchy food and soft food.

 

[snitz427]

Ok yah I have a Dubia colony that I’m just letting breed for a couple more weeks before I start feeding them off. And I’m planning on starting a cricket colony as well.

If you're going to start raising your own you should definitely try silkworms. I've found them much easier than people made them out to be, and they are slow growing and easy to feed off. At the rate my young guys ate, I'd have no problem feeding off 250/mo between the two, even with rotating them! We also just started breeding our own black soldier fly larva (also great composters!)

Crickets and dubias take a bit to get established. It took us a few months of breeding and restocking them before we ended up with multiple generations. We still dont' have a huge population, but its enough now that they only get them 1x a week.

 

[JIFFYPOP]

My 4 month old panther, will only eat crickets. Got him some superworms, but he doesn't even go for em. Still is all about the crickets. Hopefully just a matter of time till I can spoil him. I don't think hes ever had one before, so maybe they just freak him out a little bit?? Any, thoughts?

 

[snitz427]

I've heard lots of people say that certain foods scared their chams (hornworms, for example). My guys are/were little piggies so no food scared them. They would even try to eat my fingers now and then!

 

[JIFFYPOP]

My veiled was like that, he would eat anything lol. Cant wait for this lil guy to get like that. I would loose my mind eating exact same thing everyday lol.

 

[WashingtonCham]

If you're going to start raising your own you should definitely try silkworms. I've found them much easier than people made them out to be, and they are slow growing and easy to feed off. At the rate my young guys ate, I'd have no problem feeding off 250/mo between the two, even with rotating them! We also just started breeding our own black soldier fly larva (also great composters!)

Crickets and dubias take a bit to get established. It took us a few months of breeding and restocking them before we ended up with multiple generations. We still dont' have a huge population, but its enough now that they only get them 1x a week.

Yah I just listened to bills podcast on BSF today and they seem interesting but stinky haha. Yah my Dubias I started with 250 so their doing ok I got quite a few babies already started few weeks ago

I tried to have 2-3 foods for my young chams. I'd highly recommend black soldier fly larva (probably smalls or medium for a 3 month old)... my guys would eat several of them each day plus their crickets. They're easy to feed and high enough in calcium that you don't need to dust them. My guys love them, too! You could try micro/small superworms, as well. They are cheap and have a really long shelf life, but its recommended they not make up more than 20% of their diet. I also gave them a SMALL hornworm now and then, but it was hard to find them small enough at that age, and they grow so quickly they're not worth buying until they're older.

Based on my experience with 2 young vieleds, and what I've learned along the way, I'd recommend the following...

- order your feeders online. Even with shipping charges, it is far less expensive then the pet store, much better quality, and wider selection. (I really like rainbowmealworms.com for my staple feeders, although I am now raising my own)

- I would make my staple feeder a rotation of: small crickets, small dubia roaches, black soldier fly larva, micro/small superworms in that order. The only one I would limit would be superworms (use them as desert).

- I wouldn't waste my time buying small hornworms unless you have multiple chams where you can feed them off in a day or two.

-If you are up for raising your own, silkworms have been easy for us and would be great to throw into the rotation!

- don't waste your time on wax worms or butter worms yet, or at all.

do you have any info on a good place on how to start raising silkworms, I obviously read your thread about them and your success but where did you learn? I’ve heard BSFL is good as well but that they stink so how do you keep them without worrying about that? I have a shed but they will freeze. Soon I’m going to make a small insulated cubby in my shed that I will have heated for my feeders but until then I kinda feel limited. I’ve been buying my crickets and dusting them with calcium daily while I wait on my Arcadia earth pro-a to come in the mail, but I have been gutloading my crickets and my Dubias have been living off bug burger and constant mix of Cham friendly fruits and veggies that I blended and put into cubes so it’s easy to put in and remove daily without stench. And so I’m hoping they will be nice and nutritious by the time I feed them off.

 

[snitz427]

We just started the BSFL so no smell yet. Never noticed a smell with the larva either. I wonder if it is the food they are saying is smelly (you use scraps to attract them to the laying area). No mating so far.

As for the silkworms - I read a little here and watched a video on youtube. A lot of people use fresh leaves, but I don’t have access to Mulberry leaves so I use chow. I have just sorta winged it based on what I read. Most important is to 1) wash your hands and keep your surfaces/tools clean. (I wipe two knives down with alcohol and wipe my hands occassionally as I work). 2) empty poop daily once they get a little larger (the small ones poop is so small it dries out quickly). 3) dont overcrowd them 4) keep the food clean and keep it coming!

Sounds like a lot of work but just keep paper towels and alcohol nearby. Quick wipe, lift out screen, shake out poop, add food. Probably spend 5 mins a day on them.

 

[WashingtonCham]

We just started the BSFL so no smell yet. Never noticed a smell with the larva either. I wonder if it is the food they are saying is smelly (you use scraps to attract them to the laying area). No mating so far.

As for the silkworms - I read a little here and watched a video on youtube. A lot of people use fresh leaves, but I don’t have access to Mulberry leaves so I use chow. I have just sorta winged it based on what I read. Most important is to 1) wash your hands and keep your surfaces/tools clean. (I wipe two knives down with alcohol and wipe my hands occassionally as I work). 2) empty poop daily once they get a little larger (the small ones poop is so small it dries out quickly). 3) dont overcrowd them 4) keep the food clean and keep it coming!

Sounds like a lot of work but just keep paper towels and alcohol nearby. Quick wipe, lift out screen, shake out poop, add food. Probably spend 5 mins a day on them.

Thanks you’ve been a lot of help for a variety of topics and has gone hand and hand with some very experienced keepers info so I trust you know what your doing. May I ask what is with the sterilizing and all that? Do they have immune deficiencies?

 

[snitz427]

They do. They have been bred in captivity for so long that they have lost their natural ability to fly and their immunity.

Mold and feces build up are probably the biggest risks. I quickly wipe my hands and knives when dealing with food and cleaning, but if Im feeding them I just carefully pick them out with bare (unsterilized) hands.

 

[jamest0o0]

Bsfl only smell from turning what they eat into a gooey mess lol. They need uvb and some space to reproduce.

Wish my cham would eat silks and/or hornworms, but he usually only accepts roaches

 

[snitz427]

Wish my cham would eat silks and/or hornworms, but he usually only accepts roaches

The panthers aren’t overly excited about silks. I laughed evilly when I mixed them with superworms in a lid and they got one of each when they shot for a super. MAUAHAHA I WIN!!

 

[WashingtonCham]

The panthers aren’t overly excited about silks. I laughed evilly when I mixed them with superworms in a lid and they got one of each when they shot for a super. MAUAHAHA I WIN!!

I gave my little guy a couple waxworms last night as he’s only ever eaten crickets that I know of, he wanted nothing to do with them. By the way is it ok to leave a couple of them in the cage? I know crickets will bite him at night but are the wax worms ok? They seem to stay at bottom of cage maybe a feeder cup would be good for them, I just don’t want a lazy Cham, want him to retain his tongue stength and get full extension but I suppose feeding it cup once in a while wouldn’t hurt.

 

[snitz427]

I gave my little guy a couple waxworms last night as he’s only ever eaten crickets that I know of, he wanted nothing to do with them. By the way is it ok to leave a couple of them in the cage? I know crickets will bite him at night but are the wax worms ok? They seem to stay at bottom of cage maybe a feeder cup would be good for them, I just don’t want a lazy Cham, want him to retain his tongue stength and get full extension but I suppose feeding it cup once in a while wouldn’t hurt.

I wouldn't leave any worms at the bottom, as it increases the chance your chameleon will ingest feces (or the insect will ingest it). Plus the worms tend to get into corners and under stuff, never to be seen again. That being said, I've always let the crickets free range. My guys ate them so quickly that very few would survive the night! You can place a small piece of food for the crickets in the cage so they munch on that instead of your chams, but in my experience, the crickets rarely left the corners of the cage. I still put a baby carrot at the bottom, just in case.

I would offer a small one again in a few days, from your hand. They don't wiggle much so it takes a while for them to spark my chameleon's attention.

 

[WashingtonCham]

I wouldn't leave any worms at the bottom, as it increases the chance your chameleon will ingest feces (or the insect will ingest it). Plus the worms tend to get into corners and under stuff, never to be seen again. That being said, I've always let the crickets free range. My guys ate them so quickly that very few would survive the night! You can place a small piece of food for the crickets in the cage so they munch on that instead of your chams, but in my experience, the crickets rarely left the corners of the cage. I still put a baby carrot at the bottom, just in case.

I would offer a small one again in a few days, from your hand. They don't wiggle much so it takes a while for them to spark my chameleon's attention.

Ok yah my chameleon doesn’t want anything to do with my hand yet idk if it’s cuz I just got him 5 days ago or not but as soon as I put my hand in the cage he does the stick between us method. I tried handfeeding him a cricket and he flared at me. But he definitely is starting to recognize the shake of the feeder bag that I dust my crickets in cuz he comes out when he sees it but he stays at the top while I put them in the bottom then comes down. So I think it may just take some time for him to get used to me. He has no problem eating in front of me as long as his door is closed. But yes that’s been mine as well the first night I left a few in there and they just huddled at top corner of cage. But I’m still trying to get a feel for how many he will eat they said between 10-15 a day and he’s been eating maybe 8