How not to start a Saturday ( Vandalism)

[jojackson]

OK, Ill meet you halfway and acceed that police prescence deters some crimes to some extent, But is that good enough? Really?
Dont you think its worth the effort to make life better for ourselves and our kids, than rely on dealing with crime after it happens?
Isnt no crime a worthy goal? Police and laws and consequences alone will never make that happen. Its our choice.

 

[GooglezNvincent]

OK, Ill meet you halfway and acceed that police prescence deters some crimes to some extent, But is that good enough? Really?
Dont you think its worth the effort to make life better for ourselves and our kids, than rely on dealing with crime after it happens?
Isnt no crime a worthy goal? Police and laws and consequences alone will never make that happen. Its our choice.

there we go, yes presence is a little but i do agree it cant be a bad goal to try and have no crime. I dont know how we can go about doing that unless we are like minority report! but i do agree that it would be a good effort to try and stop crime before it happens rather than dealing with the ramifications of after it happens

 

[Metric]

OK, Ill meet you halfway and acceed that police prescence deters some crimes to some extent, But is that good enough? Really?
Dont you think its worth the effort to make life better for ourselves and our kids, than rely on dealing with crime after it happens?
Isnt no crime a worthy goal? Police and laws and consequences alone will never make that happen. Its our choice.

I agree with you completely, it's almost un-attainable by the police alone, unless we accept some sort of marshall law effect.

we have things like neighborhood watch where i live, usually in the more....wealthy areas as they seem to care more about their property and have the resources and extra cash to look after it.

Crime is more of a sociological problem more then it has to do with the police. A city that creates "ghettos" by forcing immigrants and poverty stricken family's to live in a designated area because it's all they can afford, will have higher crime rates then others.

It all comes down to sociological infrastructure including; education, rehab programs, crime deterring programs (cops going to schools and educating), Strict law enforcement (if a public park closes at 11pm a cop should be there to make sure everyone leaves) things like that. It's easy to blame the Police force for most of societies problems, as their the ones that seem the most directly involved with crime, but as you said, they arn't super hero's and shouldn't be expected to perform as such.

I'm not sure how well trained the police force in your area is, but im currently striving to become a Police officer in my local force and to do so, I've already gotten a college diploma and working on a university Degree, It's hard to get into the force here with only bare minimums.

Also.....If you have a shoddy police force with bad screening....that doesnt help....just creates more sour apples.

Another example of Police deterrent my local force uses, is parking an old cruiser on the side of a highway with a dummy in it, as soon people see the marked police cruiser traffic comes to a legal slow down.

 

[NewOwner]

OK, Ill meet you halfway and acceed that police prescence deters some crimes to some extent, But is that good enough? Really?
Dont you think its worth the effort to make life better for ourselves and our kids, than rely on dealing with crime after it happens?
Isnt no crime a worthy goal? Police and laws and consequences alone will never make that happen. Its our choice.

Good discussion between you and vince. i am a future driver (Just recently turned 16) and know for a fact i will drive the speed limit.

I dont like speeding people, they are completely dangerous! and like you said 40 in a 50 zone, its still speeding, it still could KILL someone, even 40 could kill someone. i dont like the fact that you speed, and i hop you get caught soon

Anyways, Hows it goin with the chameleon thiefs? done anything else about it?

 

[Metric]

Good discussion between you and vince. i am a future driver (Just recently turned 16) and know for a fact i will drive the speed limit.

I dont like speeding people, they are completely dangerous! and like you said 40 in a 50 zone, its still speeding, it still could KILL someone, even 40 could kill someone. i dont like the fact that you speed, and i hop you get caught soon

Anyways, Hows it goin with the chameleon thiefs? done anything else about it?

You won't really need to speed anyways, Canadian speed limits are higher then most of America's, except the highways, their pretty much identical.

 

[jojackson]

Yes! This is the core of it, crime is sociological, and while the system structure you mention makes inroads in cases, it worsens the situation in others , such as the 'socio-economic ghettos' you mention. Police can only do so much, to be effective with this stradegy you need 2 out of 3 people to be police.
This is why we need for crime prevention to cross all class, race and socio-econonmical barriers, we need to make it about each other ,as members of the community, as parents, as sons and daughters, rather than develope an 'us and them' fixation.

Its too easy to forget that these criminals Are our parents, family, freinds, neighbours. Taking control from this perspective as citzens, ensuring our elected authorities serve our purpouse and acheive something, both in congress and on the streets and in our homes.

I think the current way society tackles crime is clearly not working, no matter how many reports and statistics show decreased crime rates for certain crimes in certain places,
Because its not personal, until it effects us directly.
Because we dont make enough effort as a collective, to attack the cause at its core (how we raise our kids, our level of personal involvement in community), these programs, increasing police numbers, and letting wellmeaning but misguided beaurocrats make both local and federal descisions for the community that dont work because we, the community, are not part of the descision making process, will always be bandaid solutions
at best.

When will we as 'the people', become tired of a system where you work hard, pay tax, vote and abide by the law, and yet get no satisfaction in return from those you entrusted to hold power and allowed to make descisions without your input?
You cant sack the government with two weeks notice. They make promises, they go on Tv and tell you they hear you, they kiss babies and talk shit in public and come crunch time, fail to improve matters. Descision making is too far removed from mum and Dad, and mr and mrs average citizen.
The current democratic system no longer works well, and just like a cham cage, when it no longer suits your cham or serves well enough, you must change it.
Its not only the people running for power your vote should count for, but the descisions
being made on your behalf.

If a road is to be built through a community, requireing the destruction of homes, some fat cigar chomping congressman (who promised to speak for the people who voted him in), and who probly dosent live their nor ever even met the people, says, yes, the community needs this road, bla bla, it goes through and thats that. Democratic progress?
No, the people in the cummunity, never got input, never got a voice in the matter, they forfeited that when they elected this congressman.


Where government has control, community has none, just a vote. No single individuals, should be in power, but communities made up the people who live in them.
If your employee is a useless screwup, dosent hear you, dosent do what and how you ask, you dont keep hiring him, time and time again,
so why accept a system thats not working?

Democracy is suppose to be by the people, for the people. We vote and tell the government what we want, and they do it as our elected voice (employee).
Todays system, we vote and tell the government what we want, and they do what they want, and tell us what we want. And we accept it! then we complain bitterly about broken election promises etc, time and time again. Getting really hard to be enthusiastic about your vote. No wonder so many young people lose faith in 'democracy' and dont vote at all.

Time to regain control, what we have today is not democracy, its controlled anarchy,
in disguise, kept happening by corruption, ignorance and fear.

 

[Docility]

No ignore the Criminal justice student thats studying this, and looks at police ranking, and reports. *rolls eyes* it is official this has been derailed, but i will love to debate this haha!

CAPS (Chicago alternative policing strategy), and Community policing are changing the way people interact with the police, and getting people to trust us again!

The judge has discretion over the crime, but mainly its the prosecutor that controls what goes on such as plea bargens, and what charges to apply, and what to drop.

The police do deter crime, and it is a 100% proven fact. a robbery will not take place in the middle of a police convention, because that would be suicide. if a repeat offender continues to do what he does hes doing it because hes unstable with freedom in society, and after 3 times depending on what it is they are normally locked up for 20-40 years. Texas might as well develop a automated death machine since they have tons of convicts getting executed for murder ect.

compare today to the 1600's we have a AMAZINGLY lower crime rate. Just because we didnt have news media doesnt mean nothing happened. less happens today than ever before, but news is built off of ratings, and most stations portray police as vicious things, because quite frankly they are uneducated in what they do, and how they operate.

Now i will say this IF SOMEONE WANTS TO COMMIT A CRIME THEY WILL DO IT!!! There is no amount of security, or penalties that will stop someone if they are hellbent on killing someone they will do it no matter what to cost, or deterrence is. There is 0% of a way to eliminate this unless you were to kill ever person with hostile tendencies, and i think we can all agree here that is wrong, and is worse than the 1 person in society killing someone as opposed to killing billions of people world wide. Believe what you want, but i highly doubt you have been shot, raped, mugged, or kill since you are talking on here. most of the time the people who are the most protected by the system complain about it more than anyone else, and the people who have actually been a victim understand the system works the the best it can and is getting better. you safety, and mine if proof enough that the system overall works, and it is adapting the the changing time, and new recruitment pools are showing that. people with college degrees are more sough after, and there may be in the next 5-10 years a new req. that makes all cops have to have a AA degree which to me is great long as the pay is raised.

I see no rational well though out non sarcastic response to disprove this.

2 other things. the general public is mainly uneducated, but for me i would rather have educated individuals make law rather than billy bob back in the hollow of WV.

2nd. I report all matters of crime when i see it. im on the road, and i see something i report it. what you dont know is that !!!!!90%!!!!! of all police interaction is started by citizens meaning most people are reporting crime. Failed logic is all thats left you can not argue fact.

 

[jojackson]

There is 0% of a way to eliminate this unless you were to kill ever person with hostile tendencies,

^ And your talking about failed logic man? Now your really digging wild and overshooting my point, still !.

and..

unless we are like minority report!

Funny atleast....and

unless we accept some sort of marshall law effect.

.

No, no, and no.

Im saying the way to eliminate most crime, starts with our kids and our community, as opposed for example, those...'hollywood' concepts above, How is that failed logic?

people with college degrees are more sough after, and there may be in the next 5-10 years a new req. that makes all cops have to have a AA degree which to me is great long as the pay is raised.

Yes but are police minded people , Family minded ? Do they love their children, their community? Even a full on dyed in the wool phsycopath can have a colledge degree, They may be smart people but are they good people? whos judging? And Im not talking about police, im talking ..."The Public!", those faceless people you deal with everyday. Who are they?
They're our freinds and familys. Community, get it?

 

[GooglezNvincent]

^ And your talking about failed logic man? Now your really digging wild and overshooting my point, still !.

Im saying the way to eliminate most crime, starts with our kids and our community, as opposed for example, that...'hollywood' concept above, How is that failed logic?

Correct! BUT also education and knowledge, the smarter youtgh is the less pursuaded they are to do bad things by peers, like gangs, drugs and all sorts of other things. We are making a breakthrough, it is alot of the little things that build up.

 

[jojackson]

Correct! BUT also education and knowledge, the smarter youtgh is the less pursuaded they are to do bad things by peers, like gangs, drugs and all sorts of other things. We are making a breakthrough, it is alot of the little things that build up.

Yes We are agreed dude! we on the same page now bro, Yo!

 

[Docility]

you pick the one section out that sounds bad... CAPS, and community policing look it up!

 

[jojackson]

you pick the one section out that sounds bad...

OK

The police do deter crime, and it is a 100% proven fact.

Is that right Lol, because nobody ever robbed a police convention? We've done this...

OK, Ill meet you halfway and acceed that police prescence deters some crimes to some extent

compare today to the 1600's we have a AMAZINGLY lower crime rate.

I suppose you can quote me statistics over 300 yrs old? This is NOT the 1600's.

Just because we didnt have news media doesnt mean nothing happened. less happens today than ever before, but news is built off of ratings, and most stations portray police as vicious things, because quite frankly they are uneducated in what they do, and how they operate.

No proof less happens today and this dosent apply, More crime is happening more simply because theres more people to commit it than there was in 1600.
Your logic is invalid.

Global Population estimate 1600 : Global population 791 million /1750
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

and today 2008 global population 6,707 million /6.7 billion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Clearly there could not have been more crime.

and is worse than the 1 person in society killing someone as opposed to killing billions of people world wide. Believe what you want, but i highly doubt you have been shot, raped, mugged, or kill since you are talking on here.

Mugged? Yes I have. As for the rest well "Duh!"

and the people who have actually been a victim understand the system works the the best it can and is getting better.

LOl, 'X' Thousands of victims would beg the differ. You do not speak for them. You simply state your own opinion.

other things. the general public is mainly uneducated, but for me i would rather have educated individuals make law rather than billy bob back in the hollow of WV.

Say what? You are one of the general public. Nobody suggested letting individuals think for us, thats the issue. Clearly You were unable to follow my earlier conversation when I said

No single individuals, should be in power, but communities made up the people who live in them.

you say..

I report all matters of crime when i see it. im on the road, and i see something i report it. what you dont know is that !!!!!90%!!!!! of all police interaction is started by citizens meaning most people are reporting crime.

Yes...AFTER the fact! How were all these reported crimes deterred? please tell me.
If they were reported during the crime, they were dealt with, they were still not deterred, thwarted perhaps.

Failed logic

Yes it is! And you still entirely miss my point. You keep hammering away about how wonderful police are etc etc as though its in contention, Nobody said otherwise. Either you are rather unintelligent or you are being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Docility]

i am one of the few US citizens that have pursued a college education compared to the general public which should not be allowed to make laws. POLICE DETER CRIME!!!! Dont believe me go live in Africa where there is not a policing government and see how long you last. You appear to be a Radical liberal minded deliberitly ignoring fact. you take all posts not just this one out of conclusion and focus on things that you manipulate, and make a simple statement sound bad by editing it. you ignore what im saying in a whole, and im not the one sounding unintelligent by refuting all fact by posters. crime in a whole is getting lower over the past 10 years it has been being lowered staggeringly proof here

Figure 2.8 pg 81 5th edition Criminal justice by Adler,Mueller, and Laufer

Supported by
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#cius

I honestly cant argue the truth other than by stating facts, and using credible resources

Honestly look up C.A.P.S., and community policing they are doing what you are saying, but you are saying they are not changing, and are worthless so im going to defend till the day i die anyone in the Police/Fire fighters/Military/Medical field because they DO try, and are always changing. for me to throughly explain how they do this would take a college class to do it. stats dont lie , and they are easy to read, and are not being manipulated. you have me at the end of what i can do to prove that i have provided to great lengths of knowledge, and statistics. you could get a 4 year degree in criminology, and the study of the criminal psychology, and from that you would understand if someone wants to do something bad enough they will do it. it does not matter how much prevention how often their parents talk to them it will happen if they want to do it. thats human nature, and if someone is dead set on doing something you cant sway them. We do what we can to help, and WITH C.A.P.S leading the way for community policing they are integrating with the communities, and teaching people about what they do, and whats illegal why not to do it ECT. SAY IM WRONG WHATEVER, BUT LOOK UP COMMUNITY POLICING!

 

[jojackson]

You still spectacularly miss or ignore my whole point. Please re-read the whole thing from my first post. I think you clearly have problems retaining and collating information that you have read. by the time you get to the end, your so far offtrack its not funny.

Can you make a breif statement outlining the the main point ive been trying to make here
the whole time? Im betting you cant. Sorry You couldnt keep up.