How do I prepare for parsonii brumation

[Twitchet]

Hi all, I have a very healthy cb 4 year old 460g female parsons, I wondered if anyone has any tips on the impending brumation period- my first with a parsons.
My understanding is that she increases food intake then reduces it for brumating? , she eats well at the moment but doesn't show any lack of appetite yet-
It's getting colder here but on the warmer days she still has her door open to go into her outdoor enclosure- over the last two weeks she hasn't always wanted to go out every single day - earlier she would be out like a rocket-well a rocket travelling 4ft in 1 hour- so i have noticed slight changes there.

I'm beginning to reduce the temps and 'brighter' lighting- so the reptile shed was at about 20-24 and am trying to reduce to 19 or so, night temps should reduce from 18-20 to about 16 .

So as a check-
Reduce feeding?-
Reduce temps-still has access to a basking lamp? ( her's, naturally is a fairly low wattage anyway-) Reduce lighting slightly- she usually has a basking light- UV strip- she's had natural uv since June. and an led for plant growth also I have led strips at top of shed- i am beginning to leave them off ( everyone else has independent lighting but it just makes the shed softly lit rather than brightly lit or maybe not - please do tell me.

How much exposure to UV light a day?
I keep an eye on pink foot- as she is reducing activity levels.
Any particular Supplements or not through the winter?
Feeding though the winter? How much- or let her dictate? She would as standard get gutloaded dubia,locusts, silks, sticks, etc.
Any help gratefully received or anything else I should look out for over this time.
One last question- I have a young male which I was going to try and carry on and not brumate- as he is 1 year old and I'd like to grow him on a bit as he was a little small,
can I or should I carry on as usual with her? I just read that even if you keep temps as summer they sense barometric pressure and brumate anyway? I dont know if that's right?

 

[Decadancin]

4 feet in 1 hour... now that's FAST baby!!!

 

[jannb]

Normally when I start lowering the temps they would go to the back of their rooms and just sit there. They would stop eating on their own. I continued the lights, mistings and dripper as normal. Once a week I would warm them up a tad and they would move over to the dripper to take a drink. Cooper was 7 months old his first winter with me so I did not cool him down but one of the more experienced parson's keepers said that I should have. I have some info that I got from the experienced keepers that I will send you.

 

[Twitchet]

Thanks Jann, That's interesting - so she'll know what she wants. She does like her basking lamp which surprised me and she loves her misting sessions- she has 1-1.5hrs twice a day and loves it.
I was told I could leave brumation for the boy to so we'll wait and see. He shows no sign of slowing down at the moment, He actually took a locust form my fingers today for the first time ever!
Meant to say i'm U.K based.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks Dec- She is not fast that's for sure. One day progress was literally 1ft per hour. I couldn't believe it.
She speeds up sometimes but everything is slow with chams and doubly so with a parsons it seems.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I have wondered this as well. I'm not cycling my pair this Winter, because they are WC and I want to get them caught up on weight, growth, and the male had a slightly soft jaw, when he arrived, so he needs to lay down plenty of calcium. I have heard that brumation increases the odds of success with breeding, but isn't an absolute requirement.
I plan to crack some windows, reduce the lights and water, offering food once or twice a week, and doing the best I can to drop nights to no more than 60F and keep days at around 68-70F.

 

[Twitchet]

Hi EoG, as someone called you the other day, very cool sounding ,
yes I'm obviously not planning on breeding either, sounds like we are both on the same track. My female seems to be changing her behaviour so will a little help she will do what she wants I guess.
Maybe we will both find out more soon.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

EoG! I'll take it!
I DO plan to breed, but not yet. They aren't mature, of course and their health and being well adjusted is my goal, presently. They wouldn't naturally brumation, until June/July, anyway, so by next Winter, they should be better prepared for brumation.

 

[Twitchet]

Mr EoG !
Yes- of course- winter in Madagascar is our summer? but their clocks would be running with our weather? or weather here in U.K? Now I don't know what to do- She's definitely changing her behaviour from her summer behaviour so she's on our time?
Not sure I would breed as I don't know if there would be enough people in the U.k that would want a Parsons- maybe I'm wrong but it would be such a responsibility finding good homes.LONG way off yet!

 

[Lathis]

I've been starting to set up plans for how Bucky might brumate this season, too. Dropping his ambient to lower 70s will be possible. I plan to remove his basking spot or limit it's availability to a few hours once a week or every few days. His enclosure is next to a giant window, so he already follows natural daylight patterns, and I'll adjust his light timer to match the shorter days. I thought I would follow his cues and let him tell me what he prefers to do.

Question for you all, and it might be a stupid question but it's one I haven't found a satisfying answer. Brumation definitely seems to play an important role in triggering breeding cycles. I'm not planning to breed. Is nonbreeding related brumation necessary for parsonii? Do temperate reptiles require a slow down season (sorry of like brains need sleep to catch up on crucial functions)? Do we know for sure one way or the other? I'm sure natural seasonal cycles are important to overall health, but I was curious what info long-term keepers have and what opinions there are on the subject.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so @Twitchet let me know if you want me to move this to a new post.

 

[Twitchet]

Hi Bucky's mummy, not at all, the more info for me, you and everyone else the better, the nice thing is one question quite often leads or opens up another so very interesting questions you pose, that's for sure. Thanks for the info, sounds like I'm heading the right way, hopefully others will join in. Hope Bucky is well.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

They certainly are on their own schedule and I'm sure that is part of the reason getting them acclimated and eating was a challenge for me, since they came to me in April, and would have been winding down to brumate during the times they were refusing food and the female suffered her infection. They seem to be on my time now, probably because their day length and other environmental cues are all artificially controlled and they don't see the shorter days, being outside.
I have always felt seasonal pressure changes and pressure changes that occur before rain are huge cues for these animals and play a huge role in why they suffer from dehydration in captivity, even with misting and drippers. In nature, they know to get ready to drink hours before the rain falls, where they just misted randomly, without warning in our care. Thankfully my pair drinks almost immediately, when misted.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I've been starting to set up plans for how Bucky might brumate this season, too. Dropping his ambient to lower 70s will be possible. I plan to remove his basking spot or limit it's availability to a few hours once a week or every few days. His enclosure is next to a giant window, so he already follows natural daylight patterns, and I'll adjust his light timer to match the shorter days. I thought I would follow his cues and let him tell me what he prefers to do.

Question for you all, and it might be a stupid question but it's one I haven't found a satisfying answer. Brumation definitely seems to play an important role in triggering breeding cycles. I'm not planning to breed. Is nonbreeding related brumation necessary for parsonii? Do temperate reptiles require a slow down season (sorry of like brains need sleep to catch up on crucial functions)? Do we know for sure one way or the other? I'm sure natural seasonal cycles are important to overall health, but I was curious what info long-term keepers have and what opinions there are on the subject.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so @Twitchet let me know if you want me to move this to a new post.

Your question certainly has merit.
To my limited understanding, parsons aren't only found where they experience a brumation. Some of the individual occurring at lower elevations may not brumate or do so for very shorter periods. In the case of reptiles, such as snakes and turtles, it is usually not detrimental to not hibernate them. Unlike plants, which will eventually succumb (most), if not given a dormancy, reptiles seem to slow down out of response to environmental pressure and not as a part of their miantanence of metabolic health.
It does affect breeding and I imagine slowing down females will reduce clutch size, as I'm veileds and reduce the exhausting effects of producing abundant clutches of eggs. If only they could tell us before they started ovulating!

 

[savage13]

This is a great topic one that basically all parson's keepers should talk about my juveniles too young but as winter approaches.I lower my apartment temperature from 75 to 70 with night drop for 65 just to get him used to it also here a web page that can be useful..

http://madcham.com/?p=2439&lang=en

 

[Twitchet]

Hi Savage13, Thanks for the info- I'm adding those numbers to my file- I have only quickly looked at that site- but what fantastic wealth of info and topics- Thanks for much for passing it on. It's Unbelievable.

 

[savage13]

your welcome we as Parson's keeper should always share information with each other also keep a track of our animals bloodline for breeding purposes as we once did when the(CIN) was around...

 

[AaronK]

Normally when I start lowering the temps they would go to the back of their rooms and just sit there. They would stop eating on their own. I continued the lights, mistings and dripper as normal. Once a week I would warm them up a tad and they would move over to the dripper to take a drink. Cooper was 7 months old his first winter with me so I did not cool him down but one of the more experienced parson's keepers said that I should have. I have some info that I got from the experienced keepers that I will send you.

I too would be interested in this information as well. According to the breeder from Ukraine October is when they start their light cycles declining from 12 hours a day both basking and uvb, to only uvb at 8 hours a day no basking. The temperatures also drop about 5-8 degrees F both for daytime and night temperatures, but I would like other experienced Parsons keepers to weigh in as well. I have not started decreasing the light cycles and temperatures as of yet since my females appetite has sky rocketed the past week in what I can only guess as preparation for brumation.

 

[savage13]

I too would be interested in this information as well. According to the breeder from Ukraine October is when they start their light cycles declining from 12 hours a day both basking and uvb, to only uvb at 8 hours a day no basking. The temperatures also drop about 5-8 degrees F both for daytime and night temperatures, but I would like other experienced Parsons keepers to weigh in as well. I have not started decreasing the light cycles and temperatures as of yet since my females appetite has sky rocketed the past week in what I can only guess as preparation for brumat

+1 i would love that to @jannb

 

[Extensionofgreen]

@jannb ,
It would be very appreciated if you could share whatever information you had to offer Tabitha, regarding parsonii brumation and care. We are all eager to learn more.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I never cooled down any of my Parson's. Living in Southern California the goal usually was to make sure they never got too hot.

The few times I did have animal mate and lay eggs, none were put through a cooling period. Honestly I'm a believer in nature adapts.

For example, when conditions are right a given species will see its population explode. When those conditions don't exist breeding will not happen.

As humans, we can sometimes control those factors in captivity. Is slowing down the animal's biology needed? I haven't seen that. If anything I think they adapted to deal with the natural weather cycles from their home. Even their egg incubation is closely tied to those weather cycles.

A Parson in a stable temperature controlled environment will not know what time it is nor need a hibernation like period. They will just continue to need what they always do, food, light, water and all the other things we keepers give them. In the case of a female, they will produce eggs with or without a male. Keeping them cooler slows this cycle down obviously but if you make sure they have the extra calcium they need and laying sites then like an iguana, they'll just lay their eggs and go back to being a Parson in a tree afterwards.

Anyway, my .02 from the experiences I had back then. Currently with Atlas his indoor cage stays the same 79-88F year around with a night temp of about 72F

 

[Lathis]

This is all really good info - it makes me feel more comfortable with my plan. I'm just nervous for Bucky's first winter in my care. I want to do everything right and best.