How did my Veiled chameleon die?

[ShadowMaster107]

Hi, I had I veiled chameleon how about 4 months. when came home from school and I had found I had passed away. I am doing a care check to and giving more info at the bottom

The species, sex, and age of your chameleon.(Veiled, Male, I was guessing around 5-5 1/2 months but I never got an exact age) How long has it been in your care ? (4 months)
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?(I never handled him TO much but i had to hold him to take him to the vet and things like that.)
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham?(crickets) What amount?(9-13) What is the SCHEDULE?(I feed him every day) How are you gut-loading your feeders?(Fluker's High-Calcium Cricket Feed and things like carrots and somtimes spinach that plus the orange cube block things, I forget the name)
SUPPLEMENTS - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the SCHEDULE?(I use zoomed calcium and herptivite. zoomed without d3 every day and alternating with herptivite and calcuim with D3 every wednesday)
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use?(Hand pump mister) How often and how long to you mist?(Two times a day and for about 15-30 seconds it is powerful so thats why so short) Do you see your chameleon drinking?(No but I am almost sure he was drinking)
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings.(Brown with white) Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?(No)
History - Any previous INFORMATION about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.(I got him from LLLreptiles)

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage GLASS, Screen, Combo?)(Screen) What are the dimensions?(16"16"30")
Lighting - What brand(UVB-Zilla Tropical 25 UVB Fluorescent Bulbs,HEAT-http://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Sun-Glo-Neodymium-60-Watt/dp/B000633UQW)What is your daily lighting schedule?(7:30AM-9:30PM)
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)(FLOOR-69-73, BASKING-80-83 but he liked to hang on the door of the cage which was near the basking area which is around 86-90 )? Lowest overnight temp?(65 gussing) How do you measure these temps?(Digital thermometer)
Humidity - What are your humidity levels(40-70)? How are you creating and maintaining these levels?(Mister) What do you use to measure humidity?(Hydrometer)
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?(I was, it was a golden pothos but it started to die)
Placement - Where is your cage located?(In my room) Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas?(I is not the most high traffic area. It would never get TO crazy) At what height is the top of the cage relative to your ROOM floor?(around 56)
Location - Where are you geographically located?(pennsylvania)

Ok, now for more details. I will start with when I was seeing problems. One day I was in my room doing something (I forget) and I heard a weezing from him. I got up and look at him and I waited to see if he would do it again. When he did he would open his mouth and make a screeching like noise kind of like what a chameleon would sound like it the coughed. Well me and my parents had taken him to the vet and I gave them all the info above. All they told me is my temps are a little off but they said thats whats just in there data base and there is variation all through the internet But other than that they said his colors are great and he looked great, there was a clear air way, he was active and all that so they said to get a video if the chameleon weezing so they can get a better idea of whats going on. Well I never got the video due to I don't have a phone and he would do it completely random times of the day. Well the day before he had passed(yesterday) the only thing I realized he did out of the ordinary was he went to bed about 45 minutes before the lights went off.

Any Idea of what could have caused it is needed so I don't make the same mistake with the next one. I try my best to take of the animals I own but sometimes it does not work out. The mistake I made if i didn't do a full cleaning.Because one, I thought it would stress him out changing every thing in his cage and two I do a full cleaning about every 2-3 months with all my other reptiles do to the fact that they don't poop that often I was going to do a full cleaning that day due to my earlier post but I walked in my room and, well....ya.

Vincent (like vincent van gogh) The veiled chameleon was buried in my front yard March 31, 2016


RIP

 

[Ponyboy]

Sounds like from your post you were taking proper care in terms of environment, I'm so sorry for your loss...

What kind of soil was in your plant (as in, was perlite present)? Did Vinny eat a lot of the pothos? Not saying that caused it but if the plant wasn't washed properly and still in the original perlite ridden planter that may have been a factor :/

 

[KRuehle]

I'm sorry for your loss. You sound like a really dedicated and informed chameleon owner. Maybe more experienced people could chime in.

 

[ShadowMaster107]

Sounds like from your post you were taking proper care in terms of environment, I'm so sorry for your loss...

What kind of soil was in your plant (as in, was perlite present)? Did Vinny eat a lot of the pothos? Not saying that caused it but if the plant wasn't washed properly and still in the original perlite ridden planter that may have been a factor :/

maybe, the soil I was using was eco earth (and yes he would eat it)

 

[SocialNumb]

You're gut-load choice isn't good at all. Fluker's just sucks. Spinach is best avoided (high oxalate food) but you said sometimes. Did it contribute to death? I really don't know. I assume it would in the long run but I'm no expert on these things.

Sorry for your lose. RIP Vincent

 

[carol5208]

I am very sorry for the loss of your little one. Seems like you were doing everything right. I would like to see a picture of your set up if possible. From what you were saying, it is possible that your chameleon had a respiratory problem. It is not normal for them to cough or wheeze. Maybe it was in the early stages and went undetected by the vet. How long between you taking him to the vet to be checked and bringing him back home did he die? Was the plant washed thoroughly that he was eating? I would assume if you had him 4 months, he would have died sooner if the plant had pesticides and he at it. Sometimes chameleons will not drink right away when they see the mist and water dripping down. It can take a minute or two. It is possible he was not drinking as much as you thought. His urate was white, so that is usually a good sign that he was. If you get another, I would definitely run the mister for atleast a minute or two or three twice a day. Also, I would get a fecal done right away on the next one so you can make sure he did not come to you with parasites. I am not saying this what killed your chameleon, as it seems like he had a good appetite and often times they will not eat much if they have parasites. I would just do it for the future regardless, especially if you are thinking of getting another one from the same place.

 

[KLowery88]

It does sound like a respiratory infection. Your temperatures might be on the cool side of normal, especially if he was spending a lot of time in the door where you said it was warmer. Most likely he was trying to raise his body temperature.

 

[Caymus11]

Hi, I had I veiled chameleon how about 4 months. when came home from school and I had found I had passed away. I am doing a care check to and giving more info at the bottom

The species, sex, and age of your chameleon.(Veiled, Male, I was guessing around 5-5 1/2 months but I never got an exact age) How long has it been in your care ? (4 months)
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?(I never handled him TO much but i had to hold him to take him to the vet and things like that.)
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham?(crickets) What amount?(9-13) What is the SCHEDULE?(I feed him every day) How are you gut-loading your feeders?(Fluker's High-Calcium Cricket Feed and things like carrots and somtimes spinach that plus the orange cube block things, I forget the name)
SUPPLEMENTS - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the SCHEDULE?(I use zoomed calcium and herptivite. zoomed without d3 every day and alternating with herptivite and calcuim with D3 every wednesday)
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use?(Hand pump mister) How often and how long to you mist?(Two times a day and for about 15-30 seconds it is powerful so thats why so short) Do you see your chameleon drinking?(No but I am almost sure he was drinking)
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings.(Brown with white) Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?(No)
History - Any previous INFORMATION about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.(I got him from LLLreptiles)

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage GLASS, Screen, Combo?)(Screen) What are the dimensions?(16"16"30")
Lighting - What brand(UVB-Zilla Tropical 25 UVB Fluorescent Bulbs,HEAT-http://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Sun-Glo-Neodymium-60-Watt/dp/B000633UQW)What is your daily lighting schedule?(7:30AM-9:30PM)
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)(FLOOR-69-73, BASKING-80-83 but he liked to hang on the door of the cage which was near the basking area which is around 86-90 )? Lowest overnight temp?(65 gussing) How do you measure these temps?(Digital thermometer)
Humidity - What are your humidity levels(40-70)? How are you creating and maintaining these levels?(Mister) What do you use to measure humidity?(Hydrometer)
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?(I was, it was a golden pothos but it started to die)
Placement - Where is your cage located?(In my room) Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas?(I is not the most high traffic area. It would never get TO crazy) At what height is the top of the cage relative to your ROOM floor?(around 56)
Location - Where are you geographically located?(pennsylvania)

Ok, now for more details. I will start with when I was seeing problems. One day I was in my room doing something (I forget) and I heard a weezing from him. I got up and look at him and I waited to see if he would do it again. When he did he would open his mouth and make a screeching like noise kind of like what a chameleon would sound like it the coughed. Well me and my parents had taken him to the vet and I gave them all the info above. All they told me is my temps are a little off but they said thats whats just in there data base and there is variation all through the internet But other than that they said his colors are great and he looked great, there was a clear air way, he was active and all that so they said to get a video if the chameleon weezing so they can get a better idea of whats going on. Well I never got the video due to I don't have a phone and he would do it completely random times of the day. Well the day before he had passed(yesterday) the only thing I realized he did out of the ordinary was he went to bed about 45 minutes before the lights went off.

Any Idea of what could have caused it is needed so I don't make the same mistake with the next one. I try my best to take of the animals I own but sometimes it does not work out. The mistake I made if i didn't do a full cleaning.Because one, I thought it would stress him out changing every thing in his cage and two I do a full cleaning about every 2-3 months with all my other reptiles do to the fact that they don't poop that often I was going to do a full cleaning that day due to my earlier post but I walked in my room and, well....ya.

Vincent (like vincent van gogh) The veiled chameleon was buried in my front yard March 31, 2016


RIP

 

[brownie64]

Just confirming what the others said. Sounds like a respiratory infection to me as well to bad your vet didn't catch that. In the future if you need to take your pet to a vet might want to consider one with reptile experience, or at the very least one that can detect an illness. Sorry about you loss.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

A picture of him in the days before his death could give us a better idea of what was going on. He could have died from anything and only a necropsy by a vet would give you that information and even then they might not know.

Your gutload wasn't great, but that didn't kill him. Maybe he had a blocked gut from eating the soil, but if he was passing stool, he obviously didn't. Not cleaning a screen cage is not likely to make him sick. Was he eating and passing stool up until he died? Your temps seem fine. I don't know about your lights, but bad lighting doesn't kill them unexpectedly.

The only thing that stands out is the wheezing you describe. I've experienced something like this with a few of my wild caughts. It started about a year ago although I haven't noticed anything recently. I've had them to the vets over it and the vet could not find anything. I've talked about it to another breeder and we are not even sure if perhaps the animal is choking on something. I honestly don't know why some of my wild caught chameleons randomly made this funny wheezing sound. They remain alive and in good health. I haven't heard it for a long long time.

A few weeks after import, one of my small babies died of respiratory failure caused by three very large lungworms that had destroyed his lungs. My vet and I wonder if a lungworm infection is the cause of this wheezing I heard. I'll do a necropsy on them all when they eventually die, hopefully in a long, long time.

One other wild caught had severe respiratory failure to the point I was going to euthanize him. The vet did not believe it was a respiratory infection. I made an appointment to euthanize him and do a necropsy when I got a call out of the blue from another quad breeder who said she had a similar situation that she had a gut feeling was caused by a respiratory infection but her vet, like mine, did not see anything that suggested infection. She insisted on an antibiotic treatment and the animal recovered. When I related this story to my vet, she happily prescribed the antibiotics--euthanasia is final; we could always euthanize later if the antibiotics didn't work. He survived. He remains in dicey health but improves all the time. His respiratory issues have been resolved. I refer to him as He Who Would Not Die because of all his near-death illnesses probably associated with everything around import and worming him too soon after import.

There is also the issue of chronic dehydration which I believe kills an awful lot of chameleons. The longer I keep chameleons, the more I think an automatic misting system is a necessity not a luxury. They need it not only to drink but to clean their eyes. Chronic dehydration leads to kidney failure although I would think your chameleon was much to young for that to be the case.

Bottom line, I have no idea why he died, but there was a reason. I just don't know if you will ever find out why unless you dig him up and take him to a vet for a necropsy (I'm not even sure a vet would do a necropsy based where the body has been since death). Even that might be inconclusive.

Again, I am sorry for your loss. Unexpected loss of such a young animal is particularly heart breaking.

 

[ShadowMaster107]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

A picture of him in the days before his death could give us a better idea of what was going on. He could have died from anything and only a necropsy by a vet would give you that information and even then they might not know.

Your gutload wasn't great, but that didn't kill him. Maybe he had a blocked gut from eating the soil, but if he was passing stool, he obviously didn't. Not cleaning a screen cage is not likely to make him sick. Was he eating and passing stool up until he died? Your temps seem fine. I don't know about your lights, but bad lighting doesn't kill them unexpectedly.

The only thing that stands out is the wheezing you describe. I've experienced something like this with a few of my wild caughts. It started about a year ago although I haven't noticed anything recently. I've had them to the vets over it and the vet could not find anything. I've talked about it to another breeder and we are not even sure if perhaps the animal is choking on something. I honestly don't know why some of my wild caught chameleons randomly made this funny wheezing sound. They remain alive and in good health. I haven't heard it for a long long time.

A few weeks after import, one of my small babies died of respiratory failure caused by three very large lungworms that had destroyed his lungs. My vet and I wonder if a lungworm infection is the cause of this wheezing I heard. I'll do a necropsy on them all when they eventually die, hopefully in a long, long time.

One other wild caught had severe respiratory failure to the point I was going to euthanize him. The vet did not believe it was a respiratory infection. I made an appointment to euthanize him and do a necropsy when I got a call out of the blue from another quad breeder who said she had a similar situation that she had a gut feeling was caused by a respiratory infection but her vet, like mine, did not see anything that suggested infection. She insisted on an antibiotic treatment and the animal recovered. When I related this story to my vet, she happily prescribed the antibiotics--euthanasia is final; we could always euthanize later if the antibiotics didn't work. He survived. He remains in dicey health but improves all the time. His respiratory issues have been resolved. I refer to him as He Who Would Not Die because of all his near-death illnesses probably associated with everything around import and worming him too soon after import.

There is also the issue of chronic dehydration which I believe kills an awful lot of chameleons. The longer I keep chameleons, the more I think an automatic misting system is a necessity not a luxury. They need it not only to drink but to clean their eyes. Chronic dehydration leads to kidney failure although I would think your chameleon was much to young for that to be the case.

Bottom line, I have no idea why he died, but there was a reason. I just don't know if you will ever find out why unless you dig him up and take him to a vet for a necropsy (I'm not even sure a vet would do a necropsy based where the body has been since death). Even that might be inconclusive.

Again, I am sorry for your loss. Unexpected loss of such a young animal is particularly heart breaking.

Thank you for everyone that responded and even if I don't ever find out, next time I will do better. The temps will be higher next time and i will figure out how to prevent URI. and a better gutload. And again thank you for everything that responded.