Hi again! Plus some more stuff.

Hello! :)
Some of you may remember that I made a few threads here a while ago in preparation to take on the responsibility of chameleon care. I ended up dropping off the site entirely when it occurred to me that I hadn't posted in a long while and decided that posting late would seem kind of awkward. Anyways, since then I haven't purchased a chameleon, but I have welcomed into my house a beautiful little harlequin flame (I think, at least, it is hard to tell his morph when he is young) crested gecko. I decided that it would be more responsible of me, as a keeper, to start off with a beginner's reptile and figured that a crested gecko would provide good practice. That, and they are also very cool! However, I still find chameleons fascinating and would love to care for one someday if I have the ability to do so. So, I will be bringing back the list that I shared a while ago of supplies that I may get (slightly altered and updated) plus continue a discussion on how to get my chameleon's enclosure's humidity up to proper levels. Looking back to a thread where I asked about misting systems, it seemed that most of you are very positive towards a MistKing setup, but (and forgive me if I come across as stubborn) I simply find it perplexing that I should spend so much money (converted from USD to CAD, not to mention) on a system that simply gets water from point A to point B. In discussing with Lisa of Chronic Chameleons, she proposed that I "have a dripper drip from say 9am - 10am and then have another dripper start dripping at 2pm...otherwise one dripper before leaving for work and a good spray when you get home should be completely sufficient!". I believe that this was probably in reference more to Veiled's than Panther's as she suggested that a veiled would be a better choice for me in a previous email, but she is also more experienced in panthers so it could be either way. I thought that this sounded like a good idea and that if I needed to keep him extra humid, I could let some ice melt, keep more drippers going, position said drippers so that the water is carried through the enclosure naturally, or rope in some more people to spray him while I am out (if they are quite willing!) Also, bear in mind that Vancouver City (where Lisa lives) is only a hair more humid than where I live, so this estimate should still be relevant to me. Further, I seem to find it fairly doable to keep my gecko's enclosure at a humidity level of 50% or more, though I don't know how quickly it drops when I leave. However, if any of you think that the plan that I have mentioned would be unhealthy for a chameleon, please let me know and I will reconsider! Beyond that, here is my new list of supplies and such:
- Zoo Med: ReptiBreeze 24"/24"/48" mesh enclosure
- Dripper (Perhaps a larger size than normal, or more than one)
- Mistking (Depending on your responses!)
- UVB light
- Heat light
- Two domes to contain bulbs
- Crickets
- Silkworms
- Hornworms
- More worms? What do you guys recommend? (Oh, by the way, I have since omitted roaches due to finding out that they are illegal in Canada. :rolleyes:)
- Feeder food and supplies for gutloading (because I have it on hand already for my crestie [who I have named "Toast", by the way], would crested gecko MRP make a good gutload? It contains lots of fruit, generally, and there is a type that has more insects in it if I am not mistaken.)
- Decorations and sticks for climbing surfaces
- Artificial plant or plants
- Hygrometer/thermometer combo (possibly handheld, possibly electronic, possibly both...)
- P.V.C. pipe to set up simple gravity drain system
- Floor panels, if not already included with ReptiBreeze
Setup would include a basking area, lots of horizontal sticks and plants, some more vertical surfaces, plus all of the stuff that I mentioned above.
Routines: Thoroughly hand spray in morning and night, leave drippers on throughout the day and afternoon, turn lights on in the morning and off at night, feed and dust feeders (maybe breed them. How should I go about doing that?), gut-load feeders, feed to chameleon, let out in backyard for sunlight, introduce to handling early-on, clean floor panels.
And, the last couple of things that I would like to mention/ask... 1) I may get a Chameleon Condo from Terrarium Art, which includes a place to put in bulbs, plenty of climbing space and a drip system already in it. Getting one would be very expensive, but also convenient and hopefully make for a great enclosure, plus they are much more appealing to the eye than a ReptiBreeze in my opinion. 2) If chameleons are arboreal, what is the purpose of floor panels? Why not let their waste fall into the drainage area of the enclosure and clean that every once in a while instead?

So! What do you guys think? Please discuss and/or correct anything that you feel should be discussed and/or corrected. (y)
 

Thehippie

Chameleon Enthusiast
mistking is great!! you need a linear light fixture for the uvb I suggest a t5oh. I would get cricket crack or bug burger as a gut load along with some organic fruits nd veggies. I would get real plants but beware veiled may eat substrate or plant potting material. flchams has an extensive safe chameleon plant list that you may find helpful but some fan favorites include pothos ficus dracaena and umbrella plants. I have a temp gun nd electronic hydrometer in my enclosure.
 
mistking is great!! you need a linear light fixture for the uvb I suggest a t5oh. I would get cricket crack or bug burger as a gut load along with some organic fruits nd veggies. I would get real plants but beware veiled may eat substrate or plant potting material. flchams has an extensive safe chameleon plant list that you may find helpful but some fan favorites include pothos ficus dracaena and umbrella plants. I have a temp gun nd electronic hydrometer in my enclosure.
Thanks for the information on gutloading! What would the purpose of live plants be?
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I will chime in on mistking. I started with a pressurized spray bottle. My veiled hated it and hated me standing there looking at him. I got the mistking shortly after. He loves it. He cleans his eyes in it and after basking will just sit in the mist. I have had a much easier time keeping my humidity up with it unlike the spray bottle. So I think mist king is a must for a natural hydration method mimicking what they would experience in the wild. You might want to check out the Chameleon breeder podcast. Bill strand does these and they are packed with information on everything from cleaning to lighting and so much more.
 
Thank you, everyone, for the responses! I would like to point out that I am not questioning the quality of a MistKing setup, I am sure that they are efficient, I would just like to explore alternatives if I can. :)
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thank you, everyone, for the responses! I would like to point out that I am not questioning the quality of a MistKing setup, I am sure that they are efficient, I would just like to explore alternatives if I can. :)
So I am confused.... what alternatives? What if you go out for dinner or have an emergency that keeps you away from home. Who will be misting the Cham for you? With mistking being automated your Cham is always being taken care of. They are very private animals... Some wont drink in front of humans much less clean their eyes. This is where a misting system is of value.
 

Kiraral

Member
I am away a lot, and could find nothing that rivaled the quality and reliability of a mist king. I know some people are able to build their own mister and create something they say is comparable, but that is beyond my skill set.

One thing to consider with the mister vs just a dripper is that one longer misting session gives them an opportunity to clean their eyes. I also saw you mention a concern of humidity dropping when you are gone....the humidity probe I have holds on to the minimum and maximum humidity (I reset it daily when my set ups were new) so I can tell exactly how low the humidity drops. I believe it is zoomed. If you get a veiled, keep in mind a humidity spike and drop is good for them, they are from an arid climate and constant high humidity can lead to RIs.
 

ChamFreak

Avid Member
The best thing for chameleons is wisdom. One thing you will learn is they are beyond fragile and very expensive. I think everyone appreciates when someone like you comes in and get the right information to properly care for your little one. All the advise given is priceless, you may end up not taking up advise when it comes to equipment but I can tell you and many will agree it's priceless when it comes to chameleons. They can get sick very easy and its very hard to bring them back in most cases. If your able to, get the right equipment, it will change your whole outcome. Welcome back and please don't be shy, ask, research and enjoy
 
So I am confused.... what alternatives? What if you go out for dinner or have an emergency that keeps you away from home. Who will be misting the Cham for you? With mistking being automated your Cham is always being taken care of. They are very private animals... Some wont drink in front of humans much less clean their eyes. This is where a misting system is of value.
I figured that the humidity would be maintained for a simple, brief outing. However, they do live in screen cages, so that may result in humidity being lost quickly. I will take about this a little more in a later reply...
 
Okay, now I get what the benefit of a MistKing is over other setups: Reliability! I will probably end up investing in one for peace of mind. I have heard that they are tricky to set up for a beginner, though. Is this true or should I expect something that is more intuitive? Also, I would love it if anyone could chime in about information that I may be missing or benefit from, even if it isn't about misting! For example, would a Chameleon Condo set up be worth it as my first or would it be better later down the road as an upgrade? They are pricier than a ReptiBreeze...
 

Gingero

Chameleon Enthusiast
Okay, now I get what the benefit of a MistKing is over other setups: Reliability! I will probably end up investing in one for peace of mind. I have heard that they are tricky to set up for a beginner, though. Is this true or should I expect something that is more intuitive?

I was able to set up my mistking fairly easily and I’m not handy. You’ll need a sturdy bucket to hold the water in and a drill to make a hole in the bucket. Between the manual and online videos, I think you’ll be fine.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Okay, now I get what the benefit of a MistKing is over other setups: Reliability! I will probably end up investing in one for peace of mind. I have heard that they are tricky to set up for a beginner, though. Is this true or should I expect something that is more intuitive? Also, I would love it if anyone could chime in about information that I may be missing or benefit from, even if it isn't about misting! For example, would a Chameleon Condo set up be worth it as my first or would it be better later down the road as an upgrade? They are pricier than a ReptiBreeze...
Can you put in a link for the condo your talking about? I have not heard of this.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Don't worry, it's not a literal condo! :LOL: Here (http://infinityterrarium.com/) is the website and here (http://infinityterrarium.com/products/cc/product/141-4-cc) is the specific product. In this () video at 4:51 they take a bit about it.
Ok I can see why you would like this. On first glance it does look pretty awesome. What I don't like about this set up is your lighting is really close the the highest point your Cham would be able to get to. It is only 21 inches in diameter. Also personally I think cleaning would be a challenge with this one. I also think it is really over priced. Ok so you had mentioned cleaning in relation to this product. So with the cleaning you are going to want to be removing feces and urate when you see it. Wiping down the surface with hot water and antibacterial soap. You will want to do a more thorough cleaning to your bottom pan because well the stuff that falls into it can get nasty with the water if you miss anything. Cleaning regularly will be necessary to remove the bacteria. :)
If you are willing to invest that kind of money then that is fantastic but look at www.dragonstrand.com. His enclosures are amazing. The clearside enclosures provide the ability to create the humidity pockets and levels you need to keep your future friend at. Also his drip pans are awesome for easy drainage and clean up. I also really love the dragon ledges for attaching all your plants, branches, and vines to.
They are really quality enclosures that will last and provide an optimal environment for your cham :) But since your in Canada I don't know how expensive it would be to get it there from California.
Now you can do a standard 24x24x48 zoomed. I will tell you that the zoo med I got to begin with sucks. The screws of the cage would always get loose on their own. The cleaning door at the front tried to fall out multiple times. This could be hit and miss with their product and you may not have any issue. A lot of people will cover several panels with vinyl to help maintain humidity. So it is one of those yes they need air circulation but you also have to be mindful of how to keep the humidity up.
Lighting you will want to check out T5 fixtures. Bulb strength all depends on what type of Cham you have and if you are going to provide a lot of foliage. You should not need two domes until you have a very large enclosure.
Real plants are always a plus over fake ones. helps with humidity and air quality in the enclosure. Plus if you get a Veiled they love to munch on them.
Feeders you could also do Black soldier fly Larvae.
Your gutload question I am not sure... Maybe post what exactly you are using for your crested to make sure there would be no issue.

I would go through and read all the care sheets that this forum has. They are really helpful. Hopefully this gives you additional helpful feedback on your other questions :)
 
Thank you for the information, Beman! I was considering a Dragon Strand early on but eventually changed my mind and decided that it would be better to get a cheaper, standard enclosure and then buy the Dragon Strand clips separately, but I didn't realize that there was a difference in quality then. A Dragon Strand sounds like a good investment!
 
Thank you for the information, Beman! I was considering a Dragon Strand early on but eventually changed my mind and decided that it would be better to get a cheaper, standard enclosure and then buy the Dragon Strand clips separately, but I didn't realize that there was a difference in quality then. A Dragon Strand sounds like a good investment!
In regards to the clearside enclosures produced by Dragon Strand, would there be any risk of a chameleon getting stressed out by their reflection in the glass? I like the sound of a clearside as they seem like a perfect balance, but that is one concern of mine.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
In regards to the clearside enclosures produced by Dragon Strand, would there be any risk of a chameleon getting stressed out by their reflection in the glass? I like the sound of a clearside as they seem like a perfect balance, but that is one concern of mine.
Well I know quite a few of the keepers on here use them and love them. I don't think there is enough of a reflection to cause an issue. They are clear but not like glass because they are made of a clear PVC material. I also believe that Bill would not produce a product that would hurt a Chameleon. He seems like a very devoted person with a total love of these little guys. He does the Chameleon breeder podcast as well with tons of amazing topics and information. :)
 
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