Hey guys need an opinion?

[sterling archer]

Hey guys i added some pics of my aprox. 3 month old male nosy faly and call me crazy but it looks like his neck has a bulge on it. the 1st 4 pics are of his right side( where it looks to be), the last is of his left side. am i crazy? I originally noticed it this morning, and it only seems to be there in certain positions (when he is all tight together with his tail rolled up, it doesn't seem to be there when he moves, at least not like the pics) any suggestions? am i paranoid or should i be looking for a vet?

 

[Carlton]

You're not crazy. It looks like gular edema to me. If you palpate the lump is is soft and squishy or firm? What are your gutloads and supplements and how often do you dust? Gular edema can be a supplementation imbalance problem. It can be less or more obvious as the cham moves around. He's a bit young for something like that.

 

[Zubi]

Ya that's gular edema its caused by over supplementation, I'm currently dealing with it, I completely stopped dusting my feeders for about a week and it is going away,(although mine wasn't as severe). you should see a vet who knows how to deal with it, because not all of them do

 

[sterling archer]

You're not crazy. It looks like gular edema to me. If you palpate the lump is is soft and squishy or firm? What are your gutloads and supplements and how often do you dust? Gular edema can be a supplementation imbalance problem. It can be less or more obvious as the cham moves around. He's a bit young for something like that.

Well he's not too too comfortable with me so i can't really see how the lump feels, as for gut load i use bug burger, and a mix of fresh fruit depending what i have around but mostly carrot, sweet potato, orange, arugala stuff like that. supplementing i dust with reptical no d3 everyday, then 2 times a month herptivite and twice a month with reptivite alternating every thurs. another thing I've noticed is he looks like he has a little bubble underneath each arm pit almost like a growth or cist what should i do guys

 

[Carlton]

Ya that's gular edema its caused by over supplementation, I'm currently dealing with it, I completely stopped dusting my feeders for about a week and it is going away,(although mine wasn't as severe). you should see a vet who knows how to deal with it, because not all of them do

Perfect timing, as Asia just posted a followup on her cham who had a more extreme form of this. The thread provides a lot of good diagnostic trial and error, treatments, and eventual necropsy results. Hopefully the necropsy won't be needed here!

 

[Carlton]

Well he's not too too comfortable with me so i can't really see how the lump feels, as for gut load i use bug burger, and a mix of fresh fruit depending what i have around but mostly carrot, sweet potato, orange, arugala stuff like that. supplementing i dust with reptical no d3 everyday, then 2 times a month herptivite and twice a month with reptivite alternating every thurs. another thing I've noticed is he looks like he has a little bubble underneath each arm pit almost like a growth or cist what should i do guys

AsiaKaufman just posted an update to a long thread about a very similar problem her older panther had. This timing is amazing, so go read the thread...should give you a lot of info to go on.

 

[carol5208]

i don't think we can say for sure that it is caused by over supplementation. The chameleon I got off here from one of our members was never supplemented or rarely and had a very bad case of gular edema when I got him. I do notice when he eats alot of crickets its seems to return slightly. just for the heck of it, cut back on the crickets and try some other feeders and see if you don't see improvement. I do supplement but never with d3 as he basically lives outside year round. I use the multi vitamin for him once a month and calcium at every other feeding. It is an inbalance of some sort but to say 100% that it is caused from supplements alone I think is misleading. I have talked to a couple of vets inregards to this and neither one could give me an answer as to what causes it.

 

[sterling archer]

So guys to clarify because i just checked that other forum and not gonna lie it was a little overwhelming, but from what i took out of it i should be finding a vet asap or is that not necessary yet? should i reduce the supplementing and the amount of crickets for now and see how he is in a day or two because I'm not gonna lie from that other thread it seems that all the vet requirements were extremely expensive and my golden retriever of 15 is currently costing close to 1000 $ a month and will soon have to be put down so $ may be difficult i feel like crap i love my little cham an i have only had him a month and a half could i have really given him this edema or may it have nothing to do with me??

 

[sterling archer]

sorry to be a pest but this is killing me, anybody got any ideas? or perhaps a vet they would recommend in Toronto Ontario

 

[carol5208]

No I don't think he needs a vet just yet. When I took in that chameleon with edema there was really nothing the vet said that would cure edema. There was nothing he gave me as far as meds. It is not like you can give him an antibiotic and treat it that way. A very well respected vet here in Fla said to get the chameleon out in the natural sunshine as much as possible, keep well hydrated. I would cut back some on the supplements, but not too much though as he is young and needs the calcium. The crickets, really is just my own take on things concerning the phosphorus. I may be off here, but atleast give it a try and see what happens. No emergency here as far as I can see.

 

[sterling archer]

No I don't think he needs a vet just yet. When I took in that chameleon with edema there was really nothing the vet said that would cure edema. There was nothing he gave me as far as meds. It is not like you can give him an antibiotic and treat it that way. A very well respected vet here in Fla said to get the chameleon out in the natural sunshine as much as possible, keep well hydrated. I would cut back some on the supplements, but not too much though as he is young and needs the calcium. The crickets, really is just my own take on things concerning the phosphorus. I may be off here, but atleast give it a try and see what happens. No emergency here as far as I can see.

ok well if i used to use calcium no d3 every day mutivite 2 times a month and d3 2 times a month what do u suggest i cut it down to?

 

[carol5208]

try using the calcium every other day and still do the other two twice a month. Twice a month is not much. Make sure you dust your feeders lightly and don't coat them too heavily. Were you feeding anything besides crickets?

 

[sterling archer]

try using the calcium every other day and still do the other two twice a month. Twice a month is not much. Make sure you dust your feeders lightly and don't coat them too heavily. Were you feeding anything besides crickets?

Ok ill make sure to go easy on the dusting, and everyotherday on the calcium ya i fed him a silk worm as a treat ( after taking him out to clean or get some real sun) to calm his nerves after a bit. he has eaten 4 total since i got him, 2 a couple weeks ago, and two this week, he had nothing but crickets until then and showed no issue. Could this be the problem? Some silkie intolerance??? Or over supplimentation, cause i havnt goten lazy by not dusting or anything ive been on top of thing hardcore

 

[Cainschams]

try using the calcium every other day and still do the other two twice a month. Twice a month is not much. Make sure you dust your feeders lightly and don't coat them too heavily. Were you feeding anything besides crickets?

Yep, this is what I would do or even dust them every three days. Make sure you are not coating them with the supplements. Most of the time we see the edema here because of over supplementing, especially with montane (mountainous) species. If that doesnt fix it get blood work done by the vet. This is caused by over or under supplementation and making the internal organs not functioning right. I always say to start supplementing less and see how that goes. Ive never used bug burger but I do use cricket crack. Its possible its too much of that gut load. Ive had chams fine on cricket crack and others of the same species get edema from using the same amount. It really varies upon each cham.

 

[sterling archer]

Yep, this is what I would do or even dust them every three days. Make sure you are not coating them with the supplements. Most of the time we see the edema here because of over supplementing, especially with montane (mountainous) species. If that doesnt fix it get blood work done by the vet. This is caused by over or under supplementation and making the internal organs not functioning right. I always say to start supplementing less and see how that goes. Ive never used bug burger but I do use cricket crack. Its possible its too much of that gut load. Ive had chams fine on cricket crack and others of the same species get edema from using the same amount. It really varies upon each cham.

Ah i see it can go either way, ill make sure i very lightly dust them for here on out. As for cricket crack ive been tryin to get my hands on some of it but I live in canada so none has been sent up here yet to my knowledge

 

[sterling archer]

just thought id post some pics from just a few days ago maybe a week tops just for comparison purposes...

 

[sterling archer]

hey guys just figured id post some pics today it seems to be smaller if not there at all... is edema something that comes and goes day by day or maybe was i over reacting? I'm really not sure, he seems healthy/happy today as well although moving a little slow because he is about to shed plz take a look an let me know what u think

 

[carol5208]

hey guys just figured id post some pics today it seems to be smaller if not there at all... is edema something that comes and goes day by day or maybe was i over reacting? I'm really not sure, he seems healthy/happy today as well although moving a little slow because he is about to shed plz take a look an let me know what u think

yes it can come and go. With the chameleon I have that has it, it seems to be an on again off again thing. The guy I got him from said he had the edema for over a year and a half and he never did anything to fix it as he thought he was "fat"! So my chameleon had it for a long time. There are days when it is completely gone and days when it is present. The previous owner said he supplemented when he was little (he is 4 yrs old) and then kinda quit doing it so not sure where it came from on this guy. It took me a few months to see any improvement, but then again he had the condition for such a long time. I am hoping for you that you have caught it early and are on top of it. I have to say I have not seen gular edema in a cham as young as yours on here so far. It is usually in ones that are older. Just do what everyone said and keep us posted on how things go. There is really nothing a vet can do to cure it but you can get bloodwork done as one member said and it will tell you if something is out of balance.

 

[sterling archer]

yes it can come and go. With the chameleon I have that has it, it seems to be an on again off again thing. The guy I got him from said he had the edema for over a year and a half and he never did anything to fix it as he thought he was "fat"! So my chameleon had it for a long time. There are days when it is completely gone and days when it is present. The previous owner said he supplemented when he was little (he is 4 yrs old) and then kinda quit doing it so not sure where it came from on this guy. It took me a few months to see any improvement, but then again he had the condition for such a long time. I am hoping for you that you have caught it early and are on top of it. I have to say I have not seen gular edema in a cham as young as yours on here so far. It is usually in ones that are older. Just do what everyone said and keep us posted on how things go. There is really nothing a vet can do to cure it but you can get bloodwork done as one member said and it will tell you if something is out of balance.

Thank you very much, i too am glad i noticed this early and considering i noticed it as soon as i did i think I'm pretty lucky. not to mention all the help from you guys, wouldn't know what to do without it.
so as for change for the little guy I've been join very very easy on the supplements and am going to try to do it every other day and see if i notice a change. but by the sounds of it, this doesn't sound like something that will ever go away, just something that can be maintained accordingly and kept in close watch, am i wrong?

 

[Rottsko]

good job archer. that's a really good improvement from when you first got him. yay!!!