Herbert tries to eat his goldfish brother

[trickedoutbiker]

not sure if I will ever be able to fully utilize it due to some of these extreme reactions

Nobody is here to try to scare anyone away. Lots of us are here daily. Some have been here for a year, and others have been here since the site was made. There have been SOOOOOO MANY bad stories in the past where something bad happened to a chameleon from things that the owner did, thinking it wasn't causing it any harm and such. Lost chameleons, mauled chameleons, chameleons that were eaten alive, chameleons that were crushed, burned...... there is a giant list that just goes on. Some people here just wanna lookout for the best interest of the cham. To each his own I guess...

 

[MortiMarie]

And I'd never assume you're not looking out for others. I just think your concerns are being voiced a little harshly. Maybe I'm just a baby. Hah.

 

[Virgil1972]

Most animals drink fish poop everyday. Even I have drank from rivers before without any ill effect. The cham will probably be fine. Though insect poop and fish poop are different chams do eat a lot of insect poop.

 

[alphakenc]

Male veiled cham: did u ever see that new poop movie called "constipated"??
Female veiled cham:No,because it "NEVER CAME OUT"!!

 

[leedragon]

Most animals drink fish poop everyday. Even I have drank from rivers before without any ill effect. The cham will probably be fine. Though insect poop and fish poop are different chams do eat a lot of insect poop.

do chameleons drink fish poop when they are sipping rain drops from the leaves? have they evolved to handle this health issue?

Nobody is here to try to scare anyone away. Lots of us are here daily. Some have been here for a year, and others have been here since the site was made. There have been SOOOOOO MANY bad stories in the past where something bad happened to a chameleon from things that the owner did, thinking it wasn't causing it any harm and such. Lost chameleons, mauled chameleons, chameleons that were eaten alive, chameleons that were crushed, burned...... there is a giant list that just goes on. Some people here just wanna lookout for the best interest of the cham. To each his own I guess...

I drink to that.

This whole thread is what makes me not want to ask for help/post observations that I think are interesting. Everyone on this forum is here to find information to become better keepers, and I'm not sure if I will ever be able to fully utilize it due to some of these extreme reactions. Have a little tact.

aye. you have to give a little to take a little. you ask for a little tact and I ask for a little common sense when handling chameleons. not that hard and a pretty fair deal.

 

[cyberlocc]

And I'd never assume you're not looking out for others. I just think your concerns are being voiced a little harshly. Maybe I'm just a baby. Hah.

Well, I am on a few animal forums on FBook as well (mainly just for buying supplies ect). I can tell you that you will find that everywhere. If you do something that endangers an animal you are going to hear about and it will be harsh as the best interest is the pet.

This guy is not only endangering 1 animal but 2, that cham could take a bite out that gold fish if it got close enough.

Just as has been said, go through the threads here and you will surprised. People let there chams run on the floor and play with cats and dogs. Then when the cat or dog mauls the cham, they refuse to take it to the vet and says I will buy another 30 dollar cham. That is the sad fact that happens every day. That is also just 1 example of many many things I have seen here and else where.

You bought an animal, you are know that animals sole provider and need to care for it and protect it like the living thing it is, not a 30 dollar toy that when it breaks you buy another.

Now I dont think what OP did was as bad as alot of things I have seen, and that is why I was not harsh in my post. However I dont not blame others for being so.

Also to even this issue, this time everything was fine and likely is no harm. What about the next? What about when he lets the cham out it climbs the tank and he walks away for a minute, literally 60 seconds that is all it takes for that cham to drown. Would you leave your child by a pool for a min? or at all? I sure as heck do not, and animals should be held to the same standards.

 

[MortiMarie]

I literally don't even have a Cham yet and am here for research. I only plan on handling mine for necessary cage cleaning and vet purposes. I know bad things happen that can be avoided, and I understand feeling baffled when you see something that can be dangerous yet avoided entirely. I just...think it's harsh to tell someone they don't have common sense. Just my two cents is all. #bye

 

[Shilohpsu]

the fish defecates in it. there is no uv light in that water or other means to kill bacteria so the lizard is drinking fish defecated water, does it make sense now?


but his is non of those animals. what makes you think that curled his tail is an expression of love? what does it make you think that letting it wonder around on the floor or anywhere else where it can fall off or have a lamp fall on him burn himself or scape is in any sense good to him?
You are dangerously anthropomorphizing your chameleon.

Well pet doctor Phil, I have observed Herbert since he was a baby little green guy. During the last 10 months, I have spent countless hours observing him while in his cage, on top of his cage, and exploring the living room. I know that he starts to put himself to bed every night around 9-10pm. He repeatedly goes to one of his sleeping spots, then curls his tail and stays there for the night. I've seen him basking under his uva/uvb/black lights every day. Guess what he does? He finds a comfortable spot, sprawls out, and curls his tail. I know that he feels safe and happy whenever he is lounging with his tail curled. So when he chooses to leave his cage and walks across the living room floor, crawls all the way under the car and comes out the other side, then sits there for over an hour with a curled tail, he is most likely enjoying himself. If he wasn't having a good time, he'd go elsewhere and wouldn't be lounging with a curled tail. Here is a video of what he does. Looks really dangerous... Walking on a carpeted floor...



Here is a photo of him falling asleep on my hand. Why would I infer that he is happy in this picture? Oh yeah, his bright colors and curled tail.

I can tell when he is happy and when he's stressed. I know that when he finds a spot that he likes, he curls his tail. Sorry if you and your chameleon don't share the same bond. Wouldn't be surprised if your chameleon hisses and tries to bite you, because he never gets out of his cage to have any fun.

 

[leedragon]

I literally don't even have a Cham yet and am here for research. I only plan on handling mine for necessary cage cleaning and vet purposes. I know bad things happen that can be avoided, and I understand feeling baffled when you see something that can be dangerous yet avoided entirely. I just...think it's harsh to tell someone they don't have common sense. Just my two cents is all. #bye

I am not telling people that they do not have any common sense. I ask people to use it when it comes down to handle chameleons.

Also to even this issue, this time everything was fine and likely is no harm. What about the next? What about when he lets the cham out it climbs the tank and he walks away for a minute, literally 60 seconds that is all it takes for that cham to drown. Would you leave your child by a pool for a min? or at all? I sure as heck do not, and animals should be held to the same standards.

and not even that. They can climb on something that tips over or falls on them or burn themself so freaking many thing you are not in control and that can happen when you let your chameleon outside in the house by their own. you want to have a chameleon outside it´s cage make a prooper free range.

 

[cyberlocc]

Well pet doctor Phil, I have observed Herbert since he was a baby little green guy. During the last 10 months, I have spent countless hours observing him while in his cage, on top of his cage, and exploring the living room. I know that he starts to put himself to bed every night around 9-10pm. He repeatedly goes to one of his sleeping spots, then curls his tail and stays there for the night. I've seen him basking under his uva/uvb/black lights every day. Guess what he does? He finds a comfortable spot, sprawls out, and curls his tail. I know that he feels safe and happy whenever he is lounging with his tail curled. So when he chooses to leave his cage and walks across the living room floor, crawls all the way under the car and comes out the other side, then sits there for over an hour with a curled tail, he is most likely enjoying himself. If he wasn't having a good time, he'd go elsewhere and wouldn't be lounging with a curled tail. Here is a video of what he does. Looks really dangerous... Walking on a carpeted floor...



Here is a photo of him falling asleep on my hand. Why would I infer that he is happy in this picture? Oh yeah, his bright colors and curled tail.
View attachment 158501
I can tell when he is happy and when he's stressed. I know that when he finds a spot that he likes, he curls his tail. Sorry if you and your chameleon don't share the same bond. Wouldn't be surprised if your chameleon hisses and tries to bite you, because he never gets out of his cage to have any fun.

Lol yep, seen another member say the same exact things. 2 weeks later there was a new post, "my cat ate my cham" what's worse it wasn't even the first time it happened. The poster then refused to take the cham to the vet, "the vet is 1000 dollars, I'll buy another 30 dollar cham"

Isn't it just grand to see responsible owners like you 2 gotta love it. Have a good day I am out of this thread.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I think that fish water is not a great thing, but I also don't think a hysterical reaction is called for. Also, I see all of the same posts you all see. People who ask questions with obvious answers being found with even a basic Google search, a sticky thread, or common sense, but you can't assume this keeper isn't monitoring his chameleon, while it is out and about. His chameleon is healthy and was there to observe the interaction with the fish, so he obviously keeps an eye on the chameleon, as needed. Give some credit or have some reservation, before going for the jugular and save the big guns for the people that need to hear it. I've given firm, accurate direction to several people, without insulting them, making them feel attacked, or blowing things out of proportion. I've also let people know that I take constructive criticism, but I don't take people who don't know any better, questioning or disputing my methods or experiences. It's called adulting. If you can't keep a conservative tone, leave the post alone and don't reply. Very likely, a stubborn, voluntarily ignorant person is not going to change course, not matter your tone or efforts, so do it for your own peace as well. FYI, I was on this forum 10ish years ago, though I don't recall my credentials and recently entered the chameleon keeping arena, again. I bred and rehabbed WC and CBB melleri and no one has achieved F2s, outside of an institution ( as far as I know ), since. That was in my early 20s and 10 years ago, so I'm only more capable and more aware now, so I am confident in all of my stances.

 

[leedragon]

Well pet doctor Phil, I have observed Herbert since he was a baby little green guy. During the last 10 months, I have spent countless hours observing him while in his cage, on top of his cage, and exploring the living room. I know that he starts to put himself to bed every night around 9-10pm. He repeatedly goes to one of his sleeping spots, then curls his tail and stays there for the night. I've seen him basking under his uva/uvb/black lights every day. Guess what he does? He finds a comfortable spot, sprawls out, and curls his tail. I know that he feels safe and happy whenever he is lounging with his tail curled. So when he chooses to leave his cage and walks across the living room floor, crawls all the way under the car and comes out the other side, then sits there for over an hour with a curled tail, he is most likely enjoying himself. If he wasn't having a good time, he'd go elsewhere and wouldn't be lounging with a curled tail. Here is a video of what he does. Looks really dangerous... Walking on a carpeted floor...



Here is a photo of him falling asleep on my hand. Why would I infer that he is happy in this picture? Oh yeah, his bright colors and curled tail.
View attachment 158501

And I tell you that is nothing. absolutly nothing to what will be knowing 5,6, 10 years from now.
Now there is a couple of way you can learn, you can either screw up and learn by your mistakes at the expenses of your chameleon. you can read and learn from the mistakes of other and do not commit them yourself, this being a good place to do that. Or you can listen to people who have been in your shoes.

Does he fall to sleep on your hand? you belive this is a sign of love? of relief? when chameleon close their eye when being handle that means that they are stressed in an enormous amount. this is a " maybe if I close my eyes the danger will dessapear" or playing dead if you may.

there is alot of subtile sign they show that are not able to be seen in the begining and many more that gets confused with what realy mean. And a hell lot more that you are going to need to be told by other or read it in someone else thread, book or whatever to understand what does that mean to a chameleon. not to a human but to chameleon.

 

[Shilohpsu]

Lol yep, seen another member say the same exact things. 2 weeks later there was a new post, "my cat ate my cham" what's worse it wasn't even the first time it happened. The poster then refused to take the cham to the vet, "the vet is 1000 dollars, I'll buy another 30 dollar cham"

Isn't it just grand to see responsible owners like you 2 gotta love it. Have a good day I am out of this thread.

Guess what. I don't have a dog. I don't have a cat. I have a goldfish and chameleon. My wife and I treat them like our children. The five year old goldfish is doing great and didn't get eaten. The chameleon isn't diseased from goldfish water or dying of mouth rot. He doesn't burn himself on his lights, doesn't drown in the goldfish bowl. We are always around when he is out of his cage. We don't step on him.
You guys really need to lighten up. Herbert has the proper lighting, a 24"x24"x48" cage, unlimited access to water via a drip plant with water bowl under it. He eats 5 large crickets every day coated in vitamins and calcium. He lets us hold him and falls asleep on us. He eats crickets from our hands. He explores the top of cage, top of the goldfish bowl, walks around the living room and goes to the sliding glass door or under the electric car. He has grown to 16" and is still growing just fine. He has beautiful colors when he's happy and gets dark when he's not. I think I'm doing a damn fine job of keeping him happy. Sorry that I don't have any horror stories for you. Maybe those chameleons and owners come from a bad gene pool and natural selection took its course.

 

[wavingsnail]

Just popped in to say that the "bowl" you keep your fish in is incredibly inadequate.

As fish go, goldfish are filthy. And active. Just because it's surviving doesn't mean it's thriving.

 

[Shilohpsu]

And I tell you that is nothing. absolutly nothing to what will be knowing 5,6, 10 years from now.
Now there is a couple of way you can learn, you can either screw up and learn by your mistakes at the expenses of your chameleon. you can read and learn from the mistakes of other and do not commit them yourself, this being a good place to do that. Or you can listen to people who have been in your shoes.

Does he fall to sleep on your hand? you belive this is a sign of love? of relief? when chameleon close their eye when being handle that means that they are stressed in an enormous amount. this is a " maybe if I close my eyes the danger will dessapear" or playing dead if you may.

there is alot of subtile sign they show that are not able to be seen in the begining and many more that gets confused with what realy mean. And a hell lot more that you are going to need to be told by other or read it in someone else thread, book or whatever to understand what does that mean to a chameleon. not to a human but to chameleon.

If he "fell asleep" on my hand during the middle of the day or when the lights are on in the living room, I would agree with you. He only sleeps on our hand at night when we turn off the lights in the room. He obviously enjoys the body heat. You think that it's a coincidence that he turns the same color that he does every night when I turn off his lights in his cage? Curls his tail like he does every night while sleeping in his cage? If he was dark i would understand that it was a stress response. But I guarantee you that he is sound asleep and not stressed. Does the exact same thing on our hand when we turn off the lights as he does in his cage when we turn off his lights. I wish you guys would believe me when I say that he's happy and asleep instead of claiming that I'm an ignorant owner with an unhappy chameleon pretending to play dead as a stress response. I'm basing my statements from months of observation. I know my chameleon way better than you guys. He was taken out of his cage and held every day since he was baby. We put a lot of time into raising him and as a result, we have a perfectly happy stress free male veiled chameleon that does in fact sleep on us, likes to be held, and takes trips to petco where the pets go. He lets employees and others hold him and pet him. Put some time and effort into caring for your chameleon and you may get a great one like Herbert

 

[#chammy]

Everyone on this thread is blowing things way out of proportion! so what we all have better things to do then argue. If @Shilohpsu wants to let his cham drink out of the fish bowl or roam on the floor so what that's not any of our concern! we can all clearly see the cham is happy and healthy so let him be!

 

[Shilohpsu]

Just popped in to say that the "bowl" you keep your fish in is incredibly inadequate.

As fish go, goldfish are filthy. And active. Just because it's surviving doesn't mean it's thriving.

Considering that he was a little goldfish "rescued" from county fair 5 years ago and then grew into a healthy adult goldfish in that very bowl, I'd say he's doing just fine. I regularly change his water and clean his bowl. He is thriving and will continue to do so for many years to come.

 

[cyberlocc]

Considering that he was a little goldfish "rescued" from county fair 5 years ago and then grew into a healthy adult goldfish in that very bowl, I'd say he's doing just fine. I regularly change his water and clean his bowl. He is thriving and will continue to do so for many years to come.

So that means he is thriving? People stuff snakes in 6 quart tubs from walmart, and they survive and live many years and grow bigger than the tub they are kept in. Doesn't mean its right or that they are thriving because they are not.

 

[alphakenc]

I have to agree with @#chammy there are 2side of the coin,there are lots knowledgeable person on this forum,there are also lots new members that are interested to share their experiences with all of us,personally this forum is about sharing the knowledge with each other,alphakenc I dont know all the answer sometime,but I do know how to share my knowledge to people that wants to be shared,and if everyone can take a step back just to be more relax with each other,maybe that will be the better option just to learn from each other n compromise with together.
And belive me when I say this,alphakenc I had much worst situation with this,n got the moderator to erase all my post n thread,but do I hate them?? God No,I took that experience to benefit in my own,I learn how to listen n keep whatever is useful to myself n disregard whatever is not useful somewhere in the rainbow,and I appreciate every moment in this forum that give me the opportunity to chat with everyone n I also learn that not everyone will agree with what I do or saying, I live and learn every day , sometime there are happy day sometime there are sad day,n that is how this life will be,if everyone will be agreeing with each other,this world will be a very very boring world to live.
If I decided to run naked in the white house that will be my choice to make,and that chioce will make me on the 6 o'clock primetime news n stay behind bar!!
It will be ur own choice to make ,and its also the consequences that u will get at the end,learn and share the knowledge my friends that is the main reason we here for!! @Trace is watching,so be happy!!!

 

[Pygmy chameleon]

I have to agree with @#chammy there are 2side of the coin,there are lots knowledgeable person on this forum,there are also lots new members that are interested to share their experiences with all of us,personally this forum is about sharing the knowledge with each other,alphakenc I dont know all the answer sometime,but I do know how to share my knowledge to people that wants to be shared,and if everyone can take a step back just to be more relax with each other,maybe that will be the better option just to learn from each other n compromise with together.
And belive me when I say this,alphakenc I had much worst situation with this,n got the moderator to erase all my post n thread,but do I hate them?? God No,I took that experience to benefit in my own,I learn how to listen n keep whatever is useful to myself n disregard whatever is not useful somewhere in the rainbow,and I appreciate every moment in this forum that give me the opportunity to chat with everyone n I also learn that not everyone will agree with what I do or saying, I live and learn every day , sometime there are happy day sometime there are sad day,n that is how this life will be,if everyone will be agreeing with each other,this world will be a very very boring world to live.
If I decided to run naked in the white house that will be my choice to make,and that chioce will make me on the 6 o'clock primetime news n stay behind bar!!
It will be ur own choice to make ,and its also the consequences that u will get at the end,learn and share the knowledge my friends that is the main reason we here for!! @Trace is watching,so be happy!!!

Well said @alphakenc ! Now take those words and take a step back!