HELP with veiled chameleon!

[pdartt1978]

I'm worried about my veiled chameleon. I bought her from a local pet store in early-mid April and was told she was about 4 months old so she's about 6 months now. I'm pretty pissed at the petstore because I've been getting different information from different employees about what I should be doing. She sleeps pretty much all day and night. Doesn't seem to be eating much, maybe a couple crickets a day. I dust them with a calcium supplement too. She is still defacating so I know she is eating. I change the water twice a day but never see her actually drink. I use a drip system that I got at the pet store. I handle her once every other day, which I was told by the pet store was okay. I have a day light and night light. I was never told anything about the thermometer so I'm not sure what the temp in her cage is. Pet store is closed right now so can't get one until tomorrow. He cage is mesh screen and about 2-3 feet high which was recomended by pet store that sold her to me. I mist the plants in her cage 2-3 times per day. She pretty much sleeps all the time and I'm not not sure if this is normal? Can someone please offer some advice? I want to make sure I'm taking care of her properly and I want her to be healthy. Thank you!!

 

[ataraxia]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

pics are helpful

 

[sandrachameleon]

duplicate
ataraxia and I posted at the same time

 

[pdartt1978]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled chameleon, female, 6 months old, had for almost 2.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Every other day
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Live crickets, gut loaded, put in 4-5 crickets and sometimes a couple day but they usually end up lasting at least a couple days
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Not sure the type/brand of calcium, dusting all crickets very lightly
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Dripper from pet store, mist 2-3 times/day, have not seen her drinking water
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Droppings are white liquidy, has not been tested for parasites
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Screen, about 2-3 feet high
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Don't have thermometer, pet store never told me I needed one
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Don't know
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? 1 live plant, not sure what kind
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Cage in my room in basement, not near fans or vents, top of cage is about 5 feet from the floor
Location - Where are you geographically located? Vermont

 

[kinyonga]

Has she always been lethargic, etc.?

You said..."Droppings are white liquidy"...so there's no feces/brown part?
You need to know the temperature to make sure its in the right range. If the temperature is too low, the chameleon will not be able to digest its food properly.

You didn't say anything about lights....does she have a UVB light on the cage or get direct sunlight (that doesn't pass through glass or plastic)? Does she have any other light on her cage? Is the UVB (if she has one) a long linear tube/spiral/compact/etc.? What brand is it?

Can you post a picture please?

Does she have a place to lay eggs in the cage? They can produce eggs without having been mated.

 

[Rune]

I'm worried about my veiled chameleon. I bought her from a local pet store in early-mid April and was told she was about 4 months old so she's about 6 months now. I'm pretty pissed at the petstore because I've been getting different information from different employees about what I should be doing. She sleeps pretty much all day and night. Doesn't seem to be eating much, maybe a couple crickets a day. I dust them with a calcium supplement too. She is still defacating so I know she is eating. I change the water twice a day but never see her actually drink. I use a drip system that I got at the pet store. I handle her once every other day, which I was told by the pet store was okay. I have a day light and night light. I was never told anything about the thermometer so I'm not sure what the temp in her cage is. Pet store is closed right now so can't get one until tomorrow. He cage is mesh screen and about 2-3 feet high which was recomended by pet store that sold her to me. I mist the plants in her cage 2-3 times per day. She pretty much sleeps all the time and I'm not not sure if this is normal? Can someone please offer some advice? I want to make sure I'm taking care of her properly and I want her to be healthy. Thank you!!

Ok, Just saying DONT use a night bulb. They actually need a drop in temp. Aslong as your house isnt under 60f.
Also Dont handle her until she is used to everything. It stresses them out.
Also, make sure the calcium has no D3 and isnt a multivitamin. What are your schedules?
And if the live plant isnt pothos, ficus, or hibiscus.. (there are a few others) I dont suggest using it.

 

[ataraxia]

in most situations sleeping during the day mean (one or all) three things.

1: temps and lighting are incorrect. Ambient temps low 70's basking high 80's *need to buy 2 digital thermo's one for lower cage and one to sit at basking site.. reptisun or reptiglo 5.0 linear tube for uvb and a normal house bulb for basking. normal house bulb watts will depend on ambient temps and how far the bulb will be to the basking site.

2: lack of proper nutrients. gutloading your crickets with fresh veggies and fruits. supplementing you feeders with plain calcium phos free every feeding, calcium with d3 twice a month and a multivitamin twice a month.

3: possible parasites. will need to take a fresh movement to the vets for analysis.

is she eatting at all? from your first post i saw that you have a daytime light and nighttime light. no need for a night light.

 

[DavidBuchan]

You didn't say anything about lights....does she have a UVB light on the cage or get direct sunlight (that doesn't pass through glass or plastic)? Does she have any other light on her cage? Is the UVB (if she has one) a long linear tube/spiral/compact/etc.? What brand is it?

Can you post a picture please?

Does she have a place to lay eggs in the cage? They can produce eggs without having been mated.

All good questions. It would be very useful to see pics of Cham and setup in general. The only totally obvious thing wrong so far is the night light. When do you expect her to sleep? No nightlight, and as long as you don't let it get much below average room temp. at night then she should sleep soundly all night.

 

[pdartt1978]

Okay so I've turned off the night light. Hoping that will help. Tomorrow I'm going to go to Petsmart as soon as they open and get a 5.0 Reptisun UVB tube light. Now this might be a stupid question but do I just lay that on top on the cage? What do I put the light in? Also, you say just a normal light bulb for the basking site - I have one of the Flukers sun dome lamps so I assume I would just put the bulb in there? Any suggestions on what light I should get for that? Please keep in mind my room is in the basement in Vermont. Our summer is approaching so it should be around 70 down here but in the winter it gets pretty chilly so I assume I would need to change the bulb to a higher wattage in the winter?? She does not have a place to lay eggs right now. The guy at the petstore told me I didn't need to worry about it until she was 1 year old. Everything else he appears to have told me has been wrong so not sure if he was wrong about this too? Should I buy some sand? The calcium that I have been putting on the crickets DOES have D3 in it and I've been putting it on the crickets lightly but every time I feed. So should I get a different calcium supplement? I obviously haven't been monitoring her eating closely enough so I will be doing that very thoroughly. I usually put in 3-5 crickets at a time but they crawl all over her cage and she doesn't even seem interested. How long should I leave them in there with her? Do I take them out after a certain amount of time? A few have died in her cage. I feed them a cricket food that says gutloaded and seems to be sufficient...it's a weird green jellyish looking stuff. Should I try feeding my cham some fresh greens and see if she will go for that? I'm very worried about her! I just lost my job so I dont have any income but have a VERY little saved to go to the store and get these items...not enough for a full vet appointment right now so I'm hoping these changes will be okay. I may have to borrow some money from someone if she doesn't get better soon and take her to the vet. I will try to take some pictures tomorrow morning - camera is dead at the moment. Thank you all for your help! I really appreciate it! I'm so upset at this pet store! Is there a place where I can find all the very basic care instructions? temps, how much to feed, etc? I don't trust this pet store and not really sure where to look for more information. THANKS AGAIN!

 

[DavidBuchan]

As long as the uv light is within 12" of the Cham. most of the time it's ok. It's not good through glass or plastic but through the mesh will be fine. You might have to buy a fitting for the tube if there isn't one in the setup you got. The uv is vital. The basking bulb can be 60W household bulb or a spotlight.
At six months an egg laying bin should be there all the time - they can reach sexual maturity in as little as 4 months (it's unlikely to have been an issue for yours though).
Can you tell us what it says about the d3 concentration in your powder? Again, not likely been a problem for you as she's not eating. Best practice is to take the crickets out at night, but shouldn't matter much.
The next most important change for you to make is to get a good thermometer (if you can afford digital then get one). Basking site at 84F. Ambient temp. at 70F. Make sure there's a cooler corner.
Feed the crickets fresh greens, cham. will maybe take a bite or two but getting her eating insects again is more important. Have you tried variety in food? They are not to be used as a staple but waxworms and the moths they turn into might be irresitable ( if she does go for them don't give her more than 5 a day. it might give you a new problem if she decides to refuse everything except waxworms).

 

[DavidBuchan]

Is there a place where I can find all the very basic care instructions? temps, how much to feed, etc? I don't trust this pet store and not really sure where to look for more information. THANKS AGAIN!

This is a good place to start.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."Also, you say just a normal light bulb for the basking site - I have one of the Flukers sun dome lamps so I assume I would just put the bulb in there? Any suggestions on what light I should get for that?"...just a regular incandescent household light of a wattage that produces the right temperature in the basking area.

You said..."so I assume I would need to change the bulb to a higher wattage in the winter??"...if the temperature drops below the proper basking temperature, yes.

They can lay eggs before they are a year old so IMHO its important to provide her with a place to dig/lay eggs as soon as she reaches sexual maturity. The container should be opaque and at least 12" deep x 12" x 8"...filled almost full of washed playsand. Does she have any mustardt/yellowish splotches on her yet?

You said..."Should I try feeding my cham some fresh greens and see if she will go for that?"..you can try that.

Sorry to hear that you lost your job.

With a female veiled, its important not to overfeed her consistently. It can lead to reproductive issues, constipation and even prolapse and MBD.

Here is some information that I hope will help explain supplements and a couple of other things that are indirectly involved....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[Treyton]

I had the exact same problem with my female veild. Except she wouldnt eat at all. I got her an infared heat light to start to have it not be so bright, i also covered two sides of her cage with plastic to keep a little more humidity in. And it seemed to help her alot. I also moved her cage cause she was by a window and within 24-36 hours she was like night and day. Also i find if i either have the heat on at a higher temp or the ac on in the house blowing all day it dries her cage out fast so i mist her a couple extra times a day

 

[pdartt1978]

Okay so I think there were a couple big problems. I got two thermometers and found that the high temp was only 70 degrees so I bought a 100 watt basking spot bulb. I also bought a UVB light. They didn't have the reptisun so I bought the reptiglo 5.0 UVB and the hood. She still isn't eating but I'm hoping that after a day of the heat and UVB she will have a little more energy. What should I do if I still can't get to eat? Is there something else I can try? Any other suggestions of things I can try or things I may be doing wrong?

 

[Treyton]

I dont know what other people will say about this but my reptile lady told me this. I used organic wet cat food, get the best kind you can with no bi products or anything like that. I used chicken cause it was the most blan. And i would just put a small bit on the tip of her mouth and we she would open her mouth she would get a little bit. Its alot of work because you have to change it every hour or if it starts to look dry.
Also one thing that helped my little girl was to bring her in the shower with me. I would put her in the sink with some branches to stand on (she wouldnt move cause she wuldnt open her eyes) and just let her sit in the higher humidity helped her eyes

 

[DavidBuchan]

Okay so I think there were a couple big problems. I got two thermometers and found that the high temp was only 70 degrees so I bought a 100 watt basking spot bulb. I also bought a UVB light. They didn't have the reptisun so I bought the reptiglo 5.0 UVB and the hood. She still isn't eating but I'm hoping that after a day of the heat and UVB she will have a little more energy. What should I do if I still can't get to eat? Is there something else I can try? Any other suggestions of things I can try or things I may be doing wrong?

The reptiglo is just as good ( I hope - it's what I have). I was just thinking that I'd like to know how far the problem has got, and I realised nobody asked yet how long ago you noticed the problem. It might clear up in days, like Treytons, but without a photo it's really hard to tell.

I dont know what other people will say about this but my reptile lady told me this. I used organic wet cat food, get the best kind you can with no bi products or anything like that. I used chicken cause it was the most blan. And i would just put a small bit on the tip of her mouth and we she would open her mouth she would get a little bit. Its alot of work because you have to change it every hour or if it starts to look dry.
Also one thing that helped my little girl was to bring her in the shower with me. I would put her in the sink with some branches to stand on (she wouldnt move cause she wuldnt open her eyes) and just let her sit in the higher humidity helped her eyes

Sounds like it got pretty bad for you, but how well did it work? That's what's most important.

 

[chamzilla91]

Measure the basking temperature spots. They should be in the low 80's for a female veiled. Use calcium no d3 every feeding, calcium with d3 twice a month, and a multivitamin like herptivite twice a month. Don't give a cam meat or things really high in protein or fat. Gutload the crickets with water crystals, and then like some oats on a little lid of something and then a different lid or bowl that has fresh fruits and veggies.

 

[pdartt1978]

Okay everything, I got the basking light and the repliglo 5.0 light but she doesn't seem to be getting better. I turned the lights off last night and this morning she was clinging to the top of the cage. Maybe she is too cold and I should put the night light on at night to give her some heat? She still is just sleeping all day, not moving much. The basking spot is 85 and the humidity is is a little over 80%. She isn't eating either. I think the crickets might be too big for her so I'm going to get some smaller ones. Should I put them in a bowl or have them loose? I'm also having a really hard time finding just regular calcium without the D3 in it. Maybe I'll have to ask someone at the store. I also took some pictures of her and the enclosure for everyone to get a look at. I thiink she is getting worse. PLEASE HELP! What else should I do??

 

[DavidBuchan]

I also took some pictures of her and the enclosure for everyone to get a look at. I thiink she is getting worse. PLEASE HELP! What else should I do??

You have it setup as well as I can suggest, but she doesn't look good mate. You can just hope she'll recover or you can take her to a vet for a proper checkup. The vet could maybe help with vitamins. As I suggested earlier, some different food might stimulate her after a couple of good nights sleep. Good luck

 

[kinyonga]

I think you need to get her to the vet ASAP.