Help with a sick chameleon?

[dodolah]

hey Cicada,
as Mika said, he has the advanced stage of Metabolic Bone Disorder.
Probably from improper supplementing, nutrition, and enclosure.
please read this link:
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/health-section-b-metabolic-bone.html

i think your chameleon needs a vet.
Check the ARAV link that i gave you earlier to find an exotic vet nearby your place.

If you reason with your mom, i think she'll take your pet to the vet.
I think she needs to know that your chameleon is in critical condition.

 

[mika]

Oh I forgot:

Read this website:

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

Brad Ramsey is a member of this forum and he keeps veileds too

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

It would be a good idea to replace the bulb you are using with this.

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/-/zoo-med-24-repti-sun-50-uvb-bulb/

 

[dodolah]

I would get him out to the sun as much as possible with shade of course so he doesn't overheat..

Where do you live? he needs to see a vet immediately.. That's bad mbd..

I personally use these:

1. RepCal (no phosphorus) with D3
2. RepCal (no phosphorus) withOUT D3
3. Minerall - Use I if you keep him indoors a lot. I use the "O" cuz mine gets afternoon sun.
4. Herptivite

You can get it cheap here & the screen cages are on sale:

http://www.lllreptile.com

Please have a vet see him..

Oh and i use Vit A 3,000 IU (retinyl palmitate) once a month. I got mine here:

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=EN-1034

for the repcal D3 and MinerAll 1 they basically the same.
So,
if you have Repcal D3, then buy MinerAll 0 as an addition
if you have Repcal no D3, then buy MinerAll 1 as an addition to your regiment.

 

[mika]

Can you purchase a screen enclosure for him today?

 

[Cicada]

Sorry for the late reply- I was begging my mom to get him taken to a vet, and she agreed...

And we only have one pet shop and it's closed- it's not possible to get a new cage right now...

Thanks for all your help. I have to go now, though.

 

[mika]

for the repcal D3 and MinerAll 1 they basically the same.
So,
if you have Repcal D3, then buy MinerAll 0 as an addition
if you have Repcal no D3, then buy MinerAll 1 as an addition to your regiment.

I disagree. They are not the same. Just read the labels.

Minerall contains trace minerals that Repcal D3 or without D3 does not have.

 

[dodolah]

Actually, here is a list that you should do.
I know with all of our suggestion bombarding you, you'll probably end up confused.
-----------MUST BE DONE--------------------------------------------------
1. Find an exotic vet available around your area via the ARAV link.
2. Convince your mom to take him to the vet.
3. TAKE HIM TO THE VET to get a calcium injection. Your vet might also give you some liquid calcium to be administered orally.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Meanwhile he's in the vet, get Reptisun 5.0 Linear tube in your local pet store (you might benefit from buying 10.0 in this stage).
5. Buy 3 supplements suggested by Mika (Repcal D3, MinerAll 0, Herptivite)
6. Buy an all screen cage with an appropriate size.
7. Gutload your crix with calcium filled veggies and cricket food.
8. Feed your cham.
9. When possible (if the temperature outside allows, take him to sun outside from 10 am to 2 pm).
10. Fix all the improper husbandry.

Hopefully, your cham will be able to pull through.
His feet will probably stay in that condition..

Hope that helps

 

[dodolah]

I disagree. They are not the same. Just read the labels.

Minerall contains trace minerals that Repcal D3 or without D3 does not have.

Therefore, I say get him Repcal D3 and MinerAll 0.
Too much supplement can cause him harm too.
We don't want him to overdose on calcium, either.
RepCal basically is Calcium Carbonate with Vit D3
MineRall contains Calcium Carbonate (0 with D3, I without D3) along with other traces of mineral -in fact, to be honest, MinerAll is bit better than RepCal)
Getting him MinerAll I with RepCal D3, you basically providing your cham with double dosage of D3..

 

[mika]

Too much supplement can cause him harm too.

I agree.. you know if you're still online & you live near redondo beach, ca, try contacting Dave Weldon. He's a member of this forum and he might have some loaner cages..

 

[dodolah]

I agree.. you know if you're still online & you live near redondo beach, ca, try contacting Dave Weldon. He's a member of this forum and he might have some loaner cages..

Ah Mika, that's a good idea!
I also have a small unused cage that you can borrow, Cicada (if you live around east LA).
Just return it back once you get a new one.

 

[mika]

RepCal basically is Calcium Carbonate with Vit D3
MineRall contains Calcium Carbonate (0 with D3, I without D3) along with other traces of mineral -in fact, to be honest, MinerAll is bit better than RepCal)
Getting him MinerAll I with RepCal D3, you basically providing your cham with double dosage of D3..

Agreed, I have Repcal Calcium with D3 and without D3 and

Minerall O
(which contains no D3)

& Herptivite

So in essence I only have one supplement that contains D3.

I thought that's what I said on my other post..

And if you live around Canoga Park CA, I have some extra RepCal Calcium (no D3) that I can give to you.

Dodolah... we gotta meet up sometimes so I can check out your chams.. You live so close to me.. Maybe we can meet up at one of Dave Weldon's meetings also You can edumacate me..haha

 

[jannb]

You need to find a vet and take your little guy before it's to late.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Choco,

Sorry if you answered this already ( I didn't spot it) but what part of the world are you located? I usually have loaner enclosures and equipment available in an emergency for chameleon keepers in need .

 

[kinyonga]

Cicada...first its important to get this chameleon to a vet....ASAP. The vet can give your chameleon injections of calcium until its blood calcium levels are high enough to give him a shot of calcitonin which will quickly draw calcium back into his bones.

In addition to correcting his calcium issues you need to make adjustments to your care of the chameleon. I'm going to explain this to you...but I think it would be a good idea to show this to your Mom so she can understand it as well as explain it to you if you don't.

Appropriate temperatures help the chameleon to digest its food so it plays a part in nutrient absorption. For a veiled the basking temperature should be in the mid to high 80's. The basking light can be a regular incandescent light in a hood.

Exposure to UVB allows the chameleon to produce vitamin D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its diet. There should be no plastic or glass between the UVB light and the chameleon. Sunlight is the best source of UVB...but most of us have to use UVB tube lights. (It should be the long tube light. The compact lights have caused problems.)

Most of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous so its recommended that the insects be dusted with a phos.-free calcium powder before they are fed to the chameleon at most feedings.

To ensure that the chameleon gets the vitamins it needs, I dust the insects twice a month before feeding them to the chameleon with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene will not build up in the chameleon's system. However, there is controversy as to whether all chameleons can convert beta carotene to vitamin A so some people give them a little preformed vitamin A once in a while. Preformed vitamin A can build up in the system so be very careful with it. Excess preformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 form doing its job and lead to MBD.

If your chameleon only gets UVB light from exposure to a UVB tube light, then it would be good to dust the insects twice a month lightly with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder. D3 from supplements can also build up in the system...so be careful with it too.

Gutloading the insects and feeding them a nutritious diet also helps. Crickets can be fed a wide variety of greens (dandelion, kale, collards, curly endive, escarole, etc.) and veggies (carrot, squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, etc.)

Calcium, phos., vitamin D3 and vitamin A are the main players in bone health and need to be in balance. Look at what you feed the insects, what you use to supplement/dust with and what you feed the chameleon when trying to get them in balance.

Watering is also important...so make sure you mist the chameleon at least once a day and use a dripper.

Good luck with it!

 

[Julirs]

Wow-this is very sad. THIS is typical Petstore set-up and care. Just so you know-this is exactly what happened to me the first time out but mine only made it 4 days.
It has all been said already, but I will try to make it as simple as possible.
a. Please don't put the cham in the glass tank in the sun-you will cook him, but I am sure if you could put him on a plant in the sun and sit there and watch him for a bit that would not be a bad thing.
b. Maybe just turn off the light for now if you have no idea how hot-if you put a 60W bulb on a glass aquarium it get real hot real fast. OR-get a digital thermometer with a probe on the end and check the temps on both sides and in the middle of the cage. Put the probe in the spot you want it then wait 3 minutes and read the temperature. I really would not want it higher than 90 on one side and it shoud almost be room temp on the other side so he can get out of the heat.
1. Get to the Vet Asap-he can get you started with a Calcium shot.
2. Set him up with the right supplies-here is a list of what you need...
Shopping cart

Zoo Med 18" 5.0 UVB bulb
$13.99 each $13.99
38 gallon basic Reptarium (or screen cage-your choice)
$26.99 each $26.99
Regular Clip lamp
$5.99 each $5.99
20" fluorescent hood fixture (or Walmart undercabinet fixture)
$26.99 each $26.99
Exo Terra Jungle Vine Medium
$7.99 each $7.99
RepCal ultra fine calcium with D3
$4.99 each $4.99
Rep Cal Calcium WITHOUT D3
$4.99 each $4.99
RepCal Herptivite supplement
$8.99 each $8.99
You can save some money by getting a Walmart $8.00 fixture to hold the flourescent bulb and right now LLL has a great screen cage that is 18X18X36 on sale for 57.99 that I like a little more than the Reptarium. You can put a nice size ficus or schefflera in there. A regular lightbulb can be used for basking and it sounds like you have the clip lamp. If you look at my website in my signature it shows pictures of the things in the shopping list for reference.
We all know that this can get expensive. Another option would be to give him to someone more experienced to get him better. All of his problems really are related to lack of supplementing with the right things, incorrect lighting, and incorrect temps. Good luck and we will be happy to help you help him get better. They can go on to live a good life when the problems are fixed, but at the point you don't have much time to get them fixed.

 

[Kat77]

Wow, he looks terrible. I hope you do find an appropriate vet now that your mom has agreed to taking him, because he WILL die. Probably soon. A calcium injection is definitely needed. He can go on to live a normal life if you nip that Metabolic Bone Disease in the butt NOW, but it's pretty advanced and all of the deformities he has will remain.

I'm not trying to sound preachy at all, and I know you're young, but in the future, make sure you read up on the exotic pets you get before you get them. That chameleon must be suffering.

 

[jannb]

Please lets us know if you took your chameleon to the vet and how he's doing. Where are you located? I am on the east coast in south FL. Please let me know if there's ANYTHING that I can do to help you.

 

[Kat77]

Yes, definitely let us know how he is doing! Keep us posted and keep asking questions. You definitely did the right thing, seeking help.

 

[BocaJan]

An update from my Ethel that had MBD - She is doing quite well now. Vet said she will always have a bumpy leg because it went out of kilter too early in life, but with the uv light and the calcium she is doing great. Growing well and her other limbs have all gotten healthy. I am so pleased. I removed her from the cage she was in with a sister hatchling to make sure she didn't have anything else causing issues and that they both were able to hunt enough crickets. I gave her calcium daily with 12 hours of UV light. I took her outside when I was able. She is still the unfriendliest of all my chamis, but hey, who cares. I'm just glad she is healthy, well fed and doing the chameleon thing.