Help sleepy chameleon

[ChameleonsTree]

Lymorg was sick (respiratory infection) when i got him from the pet store but whenever something made him feel bad, he went to the doctors to get it fixed. i do not believe he has no emotions, even wild animals can feel things. i also own a pit bull, next someone will tell me i'd better watch out before she turns on me... (and this is a 70lb pit that will not even take her own toys back from some little butthead jack russel terrier. what a killer...) animals heve personalities whether you are open to seeing it or not. even our vet said Lymorg was pretty "in your face" for a chameleon so no, your pet is in your care so you should care... ok, not talking about teaching a chameleon to fetch but why bother if you do not even care?
...and by the way, i will not be getting another chameleon, it cost me about $2,000 in vet bills since february, and even though i still think he was worth every bit of it, i couldnt go through that again. financially or emotionally.

Your excessive handling may have contributed to his decline in health. When chameleons get stressed their immune system is compromised and this many times leads to health issues.

 

[Zerah Morris]

Lymorg was sick (respiratory infection) when i got him from the pet store but whenever something made him feel bad, he went to the doctors to get it fixed. i do not believe he has no emotions, even wild animals can feel things.

This is where the issue lies. You are correct animals do feel things, pain, hunger, the need to mate, etc. However they do not have the human perceptions that create emotion.

Emotion
1. an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and volitional states of consciousness.
2. any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc.
3. any strong agitation of the feelings actuated by experiencing love, hate, fear, etc., and usually accompanied by certain physiological changes, as increased heartbeat or respiration, and often overt manifestation, as crying or shaking.

The animals in your care do not experience emotion, rather as Will started instinctive learned response to stimuli; emotion is unique to human perception. Only humans rationalize and internalize these stimuli into emotion.

your pet is in your care so you should care... ok, not talking about teaching a chameleon to fetch but why bother if you do not even care?

I do care, that is not the point either. The difference is I care about replicatiing the animals natural environment and eliminating as much stress from the animals captivity as possible. I care about the animal living a natural life span. I care about the animal exhibiting natural behaviors. I care about the animal expressing proper sexual behavior for species and age. I just do not care about making the specimen a pet. When they are sick I treat them in a cost benefit scenario, what does it cost the animal to be exposed to antibiotics etc. versus what do I hope the animal gains.

...and by the way, i will not be getting another chameleon, it cost me about $2,000 in vet bills since february, and even though i still think he was worth every bit of it, i couldnt go through that again. financially or emotionally.

This is exactly why the animal in this case and those similar should be returned to the dealer/breeder. You are now turned off to the hobby because of the money you threw at a sick chameleon. It cost YOU financially and emotionally; it did not cost the chameleon. The breeder/dealer is more knowledgeable and could have likely recovered the animal in your case with minimal cost. Those who do this for a living have better vet relationships, often have the "common" meds on hand and understand how to administer them. The mere fact that I do not have to take an animal from its environment and drive it across town in traffic, and submit it to being injected and inspected by numerous people it only recognizes as predatory, is enough of a difference for why my recovery success would be greater than yours. My vet comes to me if needed and all treatment and observation is done at my home. Less stress=better chance of recovery. A hobbyist is not set up to deal with a sick animal. But because you allowed your emotional attachments to get in the way of good sense you incurred the financial and emotional damage and still ended with a dead specimen.

oh, and what i meant by sending it to its death is if it is sick , it would die on the way... not at the breeders... just that it would die alone at the post office.

The animal does not contemplate death or loneliness so this is irrelevant. It would just have gone to sleep in a dark place that provided it needed security.

You have humanized the animal and imposed your emotions and understanding on it and because of this you have suffered, and it suffered.

 

[Lymorg and Friend]

"This is exactly why the animal in this case and those similar should be returned to the dealer/breeder. "

Lymorg came from a local pet store in New Orleans... what do you think they would have done? I was his last hope. where i had to take him to get tests done was operating out of another vet's office (2 clinics in one office) because their office got about 10 feet of water and lost most of their equipment but they are the most specialized reptile vet so if thats the situation for the doctor's what do you really think would happen to him if i just took him back? they would have just let him die from the original respiratory infection or have just sold him to someone else. i feel good in the fact that i tried to make him as comfortable as possible and make his life happy. thats all i have to say.

 

[Zerah Morris]

One more thought before anyone else runs and lets their emotions convince them to save an animal from the local pet store.

...and by the way, i will not be getting another chameleon, it cost me about $2,000 in vet bills since february, and even though i still think he was worth every bit of it, i couldnt go through that again. financially or emotionally.

I disagree, "he" way not worth $2000 nor the emotional cost to you. The jackson, by the level of current importation is of stable population in the wild, it is established in captivity and occasionally offered for sale CBB. This animal commands a wholesale cost of as low as 20-25$ per head. It is not a good montane for the novice and thus is often bought by those who impulse or compassion buy from local pet stores, BEFORE doing the necessary research. Why? Because, unlike the veiled, the store can buy then for the low wholesale price and then turn them for 100-150$ depending on market.

What may have been "worth it" to you was the feeling (emotion) that YOU gleaned from attempting to save the animal; the attention you got in the forums and from your family and friends, not to mention the vet and his staff. Now you also have a story of your devoted compassion to save an animal from horrible death. The animal did not care. You did not make it happy, in-fact you likely prolonged the inevitable and kept it in a state of pain/discomfort longer than necessary because of your intervention.

So do not fool yourself into thinking "he" was worth it. If what you got out of it was worth the 2000$ then so be it.

 

[markrydenfan81]

Something having meaning to someone is completely subjective. If Lymorg and Friend feels that her attempt to save her chameleon was worth it to her, then it was. No one can determine that for her.

Zerah Morris, since you were concerned about the LLL situation.When I called last week, the guy I spoke with at LLL basically said that my chameleon was from great husbandry and not to give him his medicine, his problems could be corrected homeopathically.

 

[markrydenfan81]

Signs of stress?

What are signs of stress? Yesterday was very stressful for my chameleon, the sickly one mentioned in my other thread. Today he has been very lethargic and not interested in anything. I put off giving him his anti-parasitic and calcium bc that requires a lot of handling, attempting to give him a day to recover so to speak. I'm worried about his health as a result from giving him daily medicine. I have to give him oral calcium for 30 days. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kinyonga]

You should be able to reduce the stress if you can get the chameleon to drink and then gently/slowly ease the calcium into its mouth while it is drinking. The same can be done with the parasite medication if its oral. This might even work if you ease the calcium or meds in while the chameleon is eating.

The meds could be making him lethargic. If it has a heavy parasite load, it has to get rid of the parasite "garbage". Live parasites are not recognized by the chameleon's system as something to get rid of, but dead ones are. In some cases if the parasite load is very heavy, the chameleon can die from the toxins that build up in its system to do with the dead parasite bodies. I hope it won't be the case with yours.

 

[Jordan]

He will probably just be irratated with things for a little bit. A jackson I had to administer calcium to like that would just open his mouth once I touched it. He got to know the drill after a week. Mine was quite abit older.

Medicine can be hard on the liver. Just make sure he has access to water as much as possible. That will help easy alot if there is any internal stress on the organs.

 

[markrydenfan81]

I help!: I have to make a life or death decision today

I have had a thread or two up about this chameleon i got from the exotic animal and reptile show 2-3 weeks ago. We have gone to the vet every week and emergency vet once( 2 days after i got him!). He had to be hospitalized yesterday. He hasn't had much improvement today. I am going out of town tomorrow so he was going to be boarded this weekend. I have 3 options basically a) continue hospitalization b) switch him to boarding c) euthanasia
I'm not sure what to do or how to make this decision. All input is appreciated.

 

[Frank Castle]

1) If you have the time and money to Continue Hospitalization. You can do it. You may have to deal with a sub healthy cham for the rest of its life with frequent hospital visits.

2) Boarding. Are you sure these guys can care for a sick Cham. Most places have a hard time caring for a healthy cham. I think this is a craps shoot. You may or may not have a cham when you come back.

3) If you have put all that you can into this guy and its not working, it is in the best interest of the animal to put it down ( In My Opinion)

4) Give the Cham to a person that has the Time and facilitys to care for and heal it.

Frank

 

[ClmbrJ]

do you have contact info for the breeder you buoght it from?

You may try reimbursment in exchange for the return of the Cham.

I wouldn't feel bad for putting the Cham down if that is what you must do, just be sure in yourself that you have done what you could.