HELP! Possible MBD

[Kourgin]

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Combo (Glass bottom, net top) 18"x18"x5'
Lighting - 100w Basking Lamp, 2x Rzilla 9w Desert 50 (UVB), 26w 5.0UVB Exo Terra
Temperature - Basking=100 Top of cage=80-90 Bottom of cage 75-80 Night=75
Humidity - 40-70%
Plants - Currently only fake plants
Placement - Bedroom corner
Location - Vancouver, BC

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Veiled, had him for about 1.5 years
Handling - Once or twice per week
Feeding - 3-6 crickets/day 1-2 mealworms/day dusted with ZooMeds Reptivite (multivitamin) Gut-Loading crickets with apple and carrot
Watering - Drip cup 2x daily, Spray bottle 2x daily
Fecal Description - generally constant. first wet white part, then solid brown part. has not been checked for parasites.
History - Generally really happy, climbing around cage. Has his ups and downs though. the odd days he will be grumpy and not each much (a cricket or two)
Current Problem -
48 hours ago right now my chameleon (Lenny) was seeming to have trouble climbing to the top of the cage. He wasn't shakey, he just kept getting stuck in certain spots. Yesterday morning I found him stuck on a vine as if he had fallen onto it. I took him out of his cage and put him on a blanket. He couldnt seem to stand on his back legs and his front legs seemed sluggish. I took him to a Vet that knew some stuff about Exotic pets. He said that it could be a calcium deficiency (MBD) and told us to get some Calcium Glucolactate and feed him baby food if he wasn't eating insects. We have given him the calcium supplement (0.15ml 2x daily) baby food (about 10ml daily) and water (about 10ml daily). Today he seems unable to move any of his limbs and keeps his eyes shut most of the time. From reading online I hear that in most cases there tends to be many fractures in the limbs as the disease progresses, but I cannot see any on him.

I think that it may be MBD, but also that it could be something else.

Anything you guys can help me with would be great.

thank you

 

[jannb]

Please post some pictures of him. Get some good pictures of his legs.

100 is WAY to hot. I bask my adult male veiled at 89.

You need to give him plain calcium at every other feeding. Calcium with d3 twice a month and the multi vit. only once a month.

 

[Kourgin]

I like how the mod's deleted your post but didnt have anything to say themselves..

 

[Trace]

Your welcome Angelo!

I deleted said posts and I don't have anything constructive to say at this conjucture.

 

[Minihuey]

What was the point of deleting it? This is a forum. People congregate ideas. Some are wrong some are right.

In this instance. This person believe it was MDB. I gave advice telling them to put them out in the sun and use feeders with high calcium. I also stated that people will try to make you feel like crap but ultimately the choice is yours.

Is there a problem I am not seeing?

hello?

 

[Minihuey]

You know whats more sad. There has still been no advice. Even JanB didnt have anything to say. WOW!


ONCE AGAIN!

IF YOUR CHAM HAS MDB.....

1. GO TO A DECENT VET (THIS IS LOTS OF MONEY!)
2. ATEMPT TO FEED YOUR CHAM BUTTER WORMS OR PHENIX WORMS (HIGH IN CALCIUM)
3. SUPPLEMENT FEEDER WITH PLAIN CALCIUM

GOOD LUCK!

 

[moody232002]

hmmm, bickering doesn't really helpthe problem in my humble opinion
i would do what jan advised with the supplements.
Natural sunlight is perfect as also mentioned.The benefits outweigh suplements.
Best advice,go to the vets(specialist in herps) and get a definitive answer.
good luck.

 

[Minihuey]

hmmm, bickering doesn't really helpthe problem in my humble opinion
i would do what jan advised with the supplements.
Natural sunlight is perfect as also mentioned.The benefits outweigh suplements.
Best advice,go to the vets(specialist in herps) and get a definitive answer.
good luck.

Ok thanks for that

 

[Trace]

hello?

Hello? I'm not on the forums 24/7. I, surprisingly, have a life outside of them and my chameleons.

Nooo. It wasn't the fact that you said that allowing the cham to get some natural sun would be beneficial (correct); it was the fact that you inferred to not see a professional because all they do was overcharge (incorrect); the attitude in which you said it and the resulting complaints I received about said attitude.

Kourgin: I am not a vet nor am I about to diagnose the problem online. The sudden immobility could be MBD related or perhaps it could be from impaction. Do you have substrate in your viv? Has he been straining to pass stool. Did the vet do an X-ray? If not, I'd be inclined to have one done; it may give a more definitive answer. I'm not aware of recommended herp vets in BC (I'm in Ontario) so perhaps some of our left coast Canadian members could speak up here.

Good luck.
Trace

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hello Kourgin

Yes the problem could be MBD. A good vet familiar with chameleons should be able to diagnose the problem, suggest husbandry improvements, and proper treatment. Seeing a good vet is the best way to go.

Temp seems high to me also.
Do I read correctly that you have a total of four lights on the cage? The most commonly recommended UVB lamp is a reptiSun 5.0 linear tube.
Info on lighting:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/68-lighting-links.html

I dont read that you are providing Calcium (dusting the crickets with it).
Info on Supplementing:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html

Your gutloading could use improvement. Info on gutloading:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition.html
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=101

I wouldnt use mealworms very often if I were you. There are better options to go along with the crickets, such as silkworms, roaches, and butterworms, which are all easily obtained. List of prey options:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html

 

[kinyonga]

With the way you are describing this chameleon, it needs the problem solved right away.

If you have not been providing it with any calcium, then it quite likely could be a calcium issue. I don't know if the amount of light you are providing it is part of the problem too or not.

The quickest way to recovery from MBD is for the vet to give it injections of calcium over a few weeks until the blood calcium levels are high enough to give it a shot of calcitonin.

 

[Minihuey]

Hello? I'm not on the forums 24/7. I, surprisingly, have a life outside of them and my chameleons.

Nooo. It wasn't the fact that you said that allowing the cham to get some natural sun would be beneficial (correct); it was the fact that you inferred to not see a professional because all they do was overcharge (incorrect); the attitude in which you said it and the resulting complaints I received about said attitude.

Kourgin: I am not a vet nor am I about to diagnose the problem online. The sudden immobility could be MBD related or perhaps it could be from impaction. Do you have substrate in your viv? Has he been straining to pass stool. Did the vet do an X-ray? If not, I'd be inclined to have one done; it may give a more definitive answer. I'm not aware of recommended herp vets in BC (I'm in Ontario) so perhaps some of our left coast Canadian members could speak up here.

Good luck.
Trace

The hello was not implying that I needed a quick response. I gave advice beside the vet because vets are expensive and a small portion of people cant afford them so maybe they are looking for something to help in the mean time.


I guess freedom to choose an alternative is unacceptable.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Kourgin, where are you located? I'm on the "left coast" of BC so perhaps I could help you locate a vet.