Help Please!

[Neoga]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled, Male, 5-6 Months old. Been in our care for 2 weeks.
Handling - 15-30 minutes per day.
Feeding - Crickets fed daily. Typically is being offered 10 per day and seems to only be eating 1-3 per day. The crickets are being fed carrots dusted with calcium supplement.
Supplements - Fluker's Calcium w/ D3 phosphorous free. Dusted on crickets 4 times a week. No multivitamins right now but they are coming in this week.
Watering - Has a waterfall in the enclosure but he does not touch it. Misting 2-5 times per day for about 2-4 minutes each time.
Fecal Description - White & solid
History - Bought from a reputable small local pet store (the only one that sells and has had a 10+ year history of selling exotic pets within 80 miles)

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 24x24x48 screen enclosure
Lighting - UVB and 100w basking bulb at the top of the cage with a ceramic bulb at night. Temps are getting low overnight so we have a 60w ceramic bulb operating at night only.
Temperature - Floor stays about 70, we have a thermometer in the exact middle of the cage reading never below 75, basking spot gets to about 95, but he will not go anywhere near them. Measured with digital gauge, analog gauges and infrared gauge.
Humidity - Humidity ranges from 50-90 after misting. By the time I come home from work the enclosure is sitting at 50. Getting HabbaMist misting system soon.
Plants - No live plants, all fake. Multiple vines going up from floor to 4-6 inches from ceiling. a few flexi-vines sewn into the walls of enclosure to keep them stable.
Placement - Located in our bedroom. Next to a window in the corner. Room isn't heated properly but heat levels are maintained (at least for him.) No fans that are in use and definitely not high traffic. The 4' cage sits on the floor.
Location - Central Kentucky, starting to get cold outside.

Current Problem - I guess we have multiple questions. We are beginners, this is our first chameleon. We want to make sure we are doing things right and that we are on the right track with the enclosure and care. Secondly, he has problems with one of his arms. It doesn't seem to bend the way it should and he can't raise it properly. It looks swollen and he definitely can't bend it like his other front arm. He falls from time to time and his limbs are shaky every time he goes to take a step. From reading this and other forums, sounds like MBD. We have gut-fed the crickets with only carrots to increase the vit A and started dusting a little bit more with the calcium w/ vit D3 to compensate for the lack of crickets. Is there anything else we can do short of a vet visit? We didn't really notice it when he came home for the first time so we're not sure if it is malnourishment from the pet store or if he possibly just broke it and isn't too secure in his environment with it only being 2 weeks away from 'home'. He was in a cage with two other chameleons who both seemed perfectly fine. His eyes stay wide open, never had a problem with them. Seems very healthy, no curvature in bones except for the one arm which isn't moving properly. I know the basking spot should probably be a little bit higher, but he won't climb too much at ALL. He will never go anywhere but down, but will never hit the bottom of the cage unless he falls. If he falls, he won't climb up to the top which is mainly because he can't reach upward with his gimp arm. Perhaps just a broken bone, or is it MBD? Any input/help appreciated.

 

[kinyonga]

Can you post a picture of the arm and some of the chameleon please?
Its hard to tell just from a description.

Having owned it for only two weeks, whatever has happened will not likely be from your care...but here is some information that might help you...

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects before you feed them to the chameleon with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it.

If you dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. (Some UVB lights have been known to cause health issues, so the most often recommended one is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light.) D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it.

Dusting twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while.

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs....so its important too. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200604210...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/

 

[ataraxia]

Your Chameleon - Veiled, Male, 5-6 Months old. Been in our care for 2 weeks.
Handling - 15-30 minutes per day.
Feeding - Crickets fed daily. Typically is being offered 10 per day and seems to only be eating 1-3 per day. The crickets are being fed carrots dusted with calcium supplement.Make sure you are taking out any extra crickets at night. calcium w/o D3 every feeding, calcium w/d3 twice a month and dust twice a month with a multivitamin.
Supplements - Fluker's Calcium w/ D3 phosphorous free. Dusted on crickets 4 times a week. No multivitamins right now but they are coming in this week.
Watering - Has a waterfall in the enclosure but he does not touch it. Misting 2-5 times per day for about 2-4 minutes each time.I would remove the waterfall.
Fecal Description - White & solid
History - Bought from a reputable small local pet store (the only one that sells and has had a 10+ year history of selling exotic pets within 80 miles)

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 24x24x48 screen enclosure
Lighting - UVB and 100w basking bulb at the top of the cage with a ceramic bulb at night. Temps are getting low overnight so we have a 60w ceramic bulb operating at night only.what kind of uvb bulb?
Temperature - Floor stays about 70, we have a thermometer in the exact middle of the cage reading never below 75, basking spot gets to about 95, but he will not go anywhere near them. Measured with digital gauge, analog gauges and infrared gauge.
Humidity - Humidity ranges from 50-90 after misting. By the time I come home from work the enclosure is sitting at 50. Getting HabbaMist misting system soon.
Plants - No live plants, all fake. Multiple vines going up from floor to 4-6 inches from ceiling. a few flexi-vines sewn into the walls of enclosure to keep them stable.
Placement - Located in our bedroom. Next to a window in the corner. Room isn't heated properly but heat levels are maintained (at least for him.) No fans that are in use and definitely not high traffic. The 4' cage sits on the floor.If possible try and put the cage as high in the room as you can.
Location - Central Kentucky, starting to get cold outside.

Current Problem - I guess we have multiple questions. We are beginners, this is our first chameleon. We want to make sure we are doing things right and that we are on the right track with the enclosure and care. Secondly, he has problems with one of his arms. It doesn't seem to bend the way it should and he can't raise it properly. It looks swollen and he definitely can't bend it like his other front arm. He falls from time to time and his limbs are shaky every time he goes to take a step. From reading this and other forums, sounds like MBD. Without pictures....Sounds like he has a combo of mbd and a sprain or broken limb. the shaking is prob mbd. the swelling and limb not functioning properly is prob a sprain or break along with mbd.We have gut-fed the crickets with only carrots to increase the vit A and started dusting a little bit more with the calcium w/ vit D3 to compensate for the lack of crickets. Is there anything else we can do short of a vet visit? IMO id take him to a vet. not just any vet make sure they are familiar with chams.We didn't really notice it when he came home for the first time so we're not sure if it is malnourishment from the pet store or if he possibly just broke it and isn't too secure in his environment with it only being 2 weeks away from 'home'. He was in a cage with two other chameleons who both seemed perfectly fine. His eyes stay wide open, never had a problem with them. Seems very healthy, no curvature in bones except for the one arm which isn't moving properly. I know the basking spot should probably be a little bit higher, but he won't climb too much at ALL. He will never go anywhere but down, but will never hit the bottom of the cage unless he falls. If he falls, he won't climb up to the top which is mainly because he can't reach upward with his gimp arm. Perhaps just a broken bone, or is it MBD? Any input/help appreciated.


im not a expert but i would handicap his cage for the time being if he is falling a lot. make the highest branch he can climb no more than 2 feet. take a folded towel and place in a trash bag and line the bottom of the cage with this. id get him to a vet to assess the limb and his calcium levels. id also recommend reptaid atm if a vet visit is not an option. can you post pics of the chameleons set up and of the limb?

 

[Neoga]

Below are pictures. The UVB is ReptiGlo ExoTerra 5.0 coiled. Crickets are not left in over night. Any issues with eating as little as he does? That has been a major concern for us as well.

 

[Julirs]

This chameleon has very bad MBD. His front leg is broken. You need to get him to a vet right away. In the mean time I would put him in a plastic tote with a vine and plants on the bottom so he cannot climb, fall, and further break things. The vet will give him a calcium booster. He will never be normal, but he can survive this way.

 

[carol5208]

Your basking spot is way too high. It should be about 80-85 max. His leg looks like it could be broken or something. Poor little guy. It also looks like there is something wrong with his back leg too probably mbd.. You chameleon looks very sickly. I hate to say this but if your pet store is selling their animals in this condition, then It gives the word "reputable" a whole nother meaning. sorry.....

 

[Neoga]

He will not get to where the basking spot is at the top of the cage. Where he sits is right by his food and that stays around 80. He hardly moves at all and most of the time he ends up hanging by his back feet. I'm starting to agree about the pet store. How long does it take for a chameleon to develop MBD?

 

[kinyonga]

MBD can seem to happen quite quickly because its often not noticed until the bones are quite bent or broken.

If you take it to the vets, the vet can give it injections of calcium until the blood calcium levels are high enough that it can be given a shot of calcitonin which will draw the calcium quickly back into the bones.

You said he can't/won't go up into the basking area...is he close enough to the UVB to get the good of it?? BTW...the most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some spirals, compacts and even tube lights have caused issues but so far the reputation of the Repti-sun 5.0 long tube has been good.

 

[ataraxia]

Your chameleon needs to see a vet. 100% broken leg. many on here dont like the powersun brand bulbs. i personally love them and as long as my chams have no ill effect from them i will use them. id recommend you also getting one in replacement of your coil bulb and daytime heat bulb. 3 crickets a day is ok atm. many on here also use mealworms as a "snack".they say the outter shell of the mealworm is hard to digest making them constipated.. i personally use them to "bulk" up a sick chameleon. mount a tray w/ a lip about a foot away from where you see him pirch a lot and put in some dusted mealworms. if you have access to silkworms, hornworms or beemoths id suggest them also to perk up his appetite. atm though with the pain he is prob going through im sure his appetite isnt going to be much.

 

[Neoga]

With injections and everything else - will he ever be okay again or will he just have a bent arm for the rest of his life and be prone to broken bones? How long would this healing process take?

 

[Elizadolots]

I also recommend you consider putting some live plants in the enclosure. They make a major difference in keeping the humidity up.

 

[kinyonga]

Unless the arm is fixed it will remain like that but the bones can be brought back to normal and unless there has been bad damage to other systems that the calcium imbalance creates he should be able to live a long life.

 

[Neoga]

Any sort of estimate on typical recovery time? What upkeep is required after this fracture may be healed and vets directions are followed? Will we be forced visit the vet frequently for more shots, supplement any differently or care for much more intensely?

 

[kinyonga]

Once the leg is healed if its re-set and the imbalance is corrected if you follow the information I gave you regarding supplements, etc. he should stay in balance and no further vet visits would be needed(unless he became ill with some other issue).