Help please

[vgaines]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female (pretty sure) Aprox. 1 month old
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? One a day to check on health
Feeding - 5-10 small crickets a day early afternoon gut-loaded with raw spinach and Fluckers Orange cubes and cricket quenchers
Supplements - ReptoCal with D3 every other day. Just picked up Rep-Cal without D3 yesterday I was told by the pet store employee that since she is so young I should do D3 every feeding. Now I'm really confused
Watering - Hand mist two to three times a day for several minutes and a dripping system (home made out a plastic cup with tiny holes filled with ice) while I am at work? I have seen her drink but not every time. she runs from the spray
Fecal Description - White and brownish/yellow. Firm
. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - all screen/ 16x16x36
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? REPTISUN 10.0 compact fluorescent blub and a 60 W incandescent bulb. What is your daily lighting schedule? My lights are on a timmer. They come on at 7am and go off at 7pm
Temperature - What temp range have you created 85-90*f basking spot and aprox. 75*F at cage bottom. )? Lowest overnight temp? Temps drop into the mid 60's at night How do you measure these temps? Digital combination Thermo-Hygrometer
Humidity - W? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Digital combination Thermo-Hygrometer
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Getting ready to add a Hoya and a Fusha. I have a nice size Ficus that I was going to let her free range on.
Placement - Where is your cage located?In my bedroom in front of a window. Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? No, No, and No. I keep my ceiling fan off and the cage is on opposite side of room from a/c vent ( ac has not been on since I brought her home. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Cage sits on the floor
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - Her eye was swollen shut when i went to check on her this morning

I have only had her for about two weeks and she has been fine up until this morning. She is still very active and climbs around her enclosure. She was rubbing her eye on a leaf his morning and that is when I took her out to get a look at her eye.

I have attached a couple of pic to another thread Eye Swollen Shut" posted in the health clinic area.

 

[carol5208]

you should copy and paste this to that thread to keep them together. Don't listen to the petstore. Listen to us, "the voice of experience" on your supplementation. Change your gutload and use a variety of fresh fruits and veggies. Dark leafy greens are good. Spinach is not recommended as it is supposed to block the absorption of calcium. I don't know if this is true but it has been said many times. Get rid of the 10.0 and get a 5.0. The 10.0 could very well be too strong for a 1 month old. Also, you need to know your humidity range. If it is too dry, it can cause eye problems.

 

[vgaines]

swollen eye

eye swollen shut


Raine was fine yesterday. Came in to check on her this morning and she was rubbing her eye on a leaf in her enclosure. i took her out to get a better look and this is what I found. She isnt opening her eye but i can see it moving around under her eye lid. Its hard to tell from the picture but it is open a tiny bit. Is there anything I should do until I can get her to the vet? Dont think I could take loosing her so soon after loosing my adopted Jacksons...

she is still very active and ate fine yesterday...
i'm gonna try and get a better pic of her eye

 

[vgaines]

More info...

Humidity levels are ranging from 20%-88%. I will be adding live plants as soon as I re-pot them with organic soil.. I am hoping this will help with humidity levels...

 

[Lovereps]

Much of your care is excellent but there are some things that need to be changed for your cham's health.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female (pretty sure) Aprox. 1 month old
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? One a day to check on health

Chameleons do not like being handled and it stresses them--which can lead to illness. Unless medicine needs to be given, it is best to leave her alone--especially for the first few weeks while she adjusts to her new home.

Feeding - 5-10 small crickets a day early afternoon gut-loaded with raw spinach and Fluckers Orange cubes and cricket quenchers

just as people need a variety of foods, the best cham diet includes a variety of appropriately sized feeders.
Phoenixworms, silkworms, hornworms, Dubias, Blue Bottle flies and isopods are all good additions to her diet.
All feeders should be fed a nutritious diet, so that they provide your cham with the most nutrients possible.
Commercial gutloads are very convenient, but unfortunately they are low in nutrients.
This linked nutrition blog was written by a veterinarian who also keeps chameleons as pets:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/560-frequently-asked-questions-nutrition.html
Some of the forum sponsors such as Mulberry farms, offer a variety of feeders.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/index.php?page=sponsors
http://www.mantisplace.com/ has both Blue Bottle fly larvae and pupae

Supplements - ReptoCal with D3 every other day. Just picked up Rep-Cal without D3 yesterday I was told by the pet store employee that since she is so young I should do D3 every feeding. Now I'm really confused

Sadly, as is so often the case, the pet store employee was very wrong.
Excessive D3 is known to lead to health problems.
The recommendation is to use D3 no more than 2x a month--and if your cham goes outdoors for more than an hour each day, she would not need any supplemental D3 ever.
Depending on how often D3 was actually given to her, it may be best to stop the D3 entirely for at least 2 weeks to a moth to give her body a chance to eliminate the excess.

Watering - Hand mist two to three times a day for several minutes and a dripping system (home made out a plastic cup with tiny holes filled with ice) while I am at work? I have seen her drink but not every time. she runs from the spray

Chams often tolerate the spraying better if you use warm water and begin your spraying at the tail first, then work towards the head.

Fecal Description - White and brownish/yellow. Firm
. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No

White urates are good--that means she is getting enough water. the fecal part color varies a little depending on what they eat.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - all screen/ 16x16x36
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? REPTISUN 10.0 compact fluorescent blub and a 60 W incandescent bulb. What is your daily lighting schedule? My lights are on a timmer. They come on at 7am and go off at 7pm

That's a good size cage and a good lighting schedule.
The 10.0 may be too strong for her young eyes.
You can leave the UVB bulb off for a couple of days and see if her eye improves.
If it does, then you'll need to replace the bulb with a 5.0 or add an extra piece of screening beneath the 10.0 to decrease the amount of UV that she receives.
You can rinse her eye with a saline solution once or twice a day to see if that helps the irritation.
If it doesn't, then you'll be best off seeing a reptile knowledgeable vet.
ARAV vets have a special interest in reptiles, so they are often a good choice.
You may find an ARAV vet in your area here:
http://www.arav.org/find-a-vet/
You can also look at the "sticky" posts at the beginning of the forum posts for more vet finding resources.

Temperature - What temp range have you created 85-90*f basking spot and aprox. 75*F at cage bottom. )? Lowest overnight temp? Temps drop into the mid 60's at night How do you measure these temps? Digital combination Thermo-Hygrometer

I would lower the basking temperature by 5 degrees, if it really is close to 90 degrees. With a 60 watt bulb it may not be.

Humidity - W? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Digital combination Thermo-Hygrometer

What is the humidity between sprayings?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Getting ready to add a

Hoya and a Fusha. I have a nice size Ficus that I was going to let her free range on.

Those are both on the "Safe Plants" list. Just be sure to use some liquid dish soap and water to clean pesticides and fertilizers off the plants before using them and then rinse a few times with water to get rid of the soapy residues.
Here is a list of cham safe plants for you to refer to:
http://flchams.com/safe_plant_list.asp

Placement - Where is your cage located?In my bedroom in front of a window. Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? No, No, and No. I keep my ceiling fan off and the cage is on opposite side of room from a/c vent ( ac has not been on since I brought her home. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Cage sits on the floor

You need to be very careful if the cage is near a window that gets sunlight.
When sunlight passes through glass, the UV in it gets converted to heat--this can easily overheat a young cham in particular.
In the wild, chameleons live above ground level--often in the trees.
They feel safest being above your eye level, so it would be best if you put the cage on a small table, crates, etc. to raise the cage up off the floor.

Here is a detailed caresheet that the forum moderators designed.
It contains reliable information on what you need to know to keep a cham healthy.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

Eye issues are fairly common cham troubles and can be caused by any of several things:
1) Infection, which can be due to injury, environmental issues, nutritional deficiencies or parasite problems
2) Malnutrition which can be caused by failing to gutload feeders or failure to feed a varied diet, improper supplementation, parasites or simply a higher need for a particular nutrient in an individual chameleon
3) Irritation--sometimes a cham's eye is irritated by something in their environment, such as too little humidity, sap from a plant or a bit of something getting into the eye (shed skin, soil particle, etc.)

The first 2 problems are best treated by a vet.
It is important is to carefully review your care, whenever a health issue arises, as even infections are often caused by environmental issues.

For the third problem, gentle, repeated flushing of a cham's eye with a sterile saline solution designed for use in eyes will typically clear things up, but if there isn't substantial improvement within a day or two, it's time to see a vet.
FWIW, I've used this one http://m.cvs.com/mt/www.cvs.com/sho...Sensitive-Eyes?skuId=458126&un_jtt_v_menu=exp
If there is something in your cham's environment that caused the irritation--like humidity usually being too low; or hot or cold air from heating or cooling blowing on him, it should be remedied.

 

[vgaines]

Thank you so much. I did buy the calcium without D3 yesterday and that is what started the discussion with the pet store employee. I added the extra screen under the 10.0 and raised the light for heat a little. now basking area is at 85* I have tried wax worms and meal worms but she ignores them. I will be ordering some butter worms because i had a lot of luck with a chameleon had several years ago. I will be heading to the store here in a little bit to pick up the saline wash and better choice of greens. At this time I have strawberries, green grapes, and carrots in with my crickets. What are the best greens to give my cricket and offer to my cham.? will frozen fruits and vegies be ok if I thaw them out before feeding?

Again thank you so much. I will take Raine to the vet o Wednesday afternoon regardless of how her eye looks. I found a vet knowledgeable in reptiles in my local area and they have a great Wellness program for reptiles, and its only $49 per year.

 

[Lovereps]

You're very welcome.
My wish is for everyone to keep their chams healthy and I know from your past posts that you are committed to taking good care of your cham.

If you just added the screen beneath the 10.0 today, I would just leave it off for a couple of days to see if her eye improves, since this will give the eye a chance to heal from excess UV exposure, if that is the cause.

I'm very glad that you only picked up the D3 calcium yesterday.
Too often it isn't until a cham has had enough D3 to cause serious damage that people come to the forum for help.

More plants will definitely help to keep the humidity much more stable and higher.

For gutloading greens, I like this post because it is a good summary:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/446-basics-gutloading.html
Strawberries, green grapes, and carrots are good.
You just have to be sure change them daily to prevent mold.
I don't see why thawed frozen veggies can't be used, too.

It's no great loss that Raine doesn't like waxworms or mealworms, since those 2 feeders should be used the least often, if at all.

If your local store carries Calciworms or Phoenixworms (same insect), those are one of the best feeders because they have enough calcium in them to not even need to be dusted with calcium.

 

[vgaines]

I ran to walmart and picked up some BAUSH + LOMB ADVANCED Eye Relief Eye Wash. Ingredient.....purified water ( 99.05%).........purpose eye wash. will this work? She was asleep by time I got home so I have left her be. Should I wake her up or wait until tomorrow. I turned off the UVB light so it will not come on in the morning.

Here are pictures of her enclosure so you can see where it is located in conjunction with the window. I also took a picture of where I am thinkinh about moving the enclosure. It will be high but I have a step stool if I need to get to the top of her cage.

Again thanks for all of the advice. I feel awful that I listened to the employees at the pet store. The vet I am taking her to on Wednesday was on one of the vet lists that is posted in this forum..

 

[Lovereps]

I don't know if the eye relief eye wash is the same as the sensitive eyes saline solution or not.
It contains many of the same ingredients but I honestly don't know how much of each ingredient it contains.
I hope you just let her sleep last night.
The saline solution rinse is to make her eye feel less irritated, potentially flush away any debris and some of the ingredients help against minor infections.

There's no need to feel bad about listening to the petshop employees.
It's natural to think that they know what they're talking about.
Many of us on the forum were given the wrong info by pet store workers who really should have known better, IMHO.

You didn't harm her with a dose or two of calcium with D3--and she should have that once every other week anyway.
I strongly doubt that the light did any permanent damage, if it is the true cause of the eye issue.

The important things are that you are working to help her get better and will have a vet see if she needs medicine.
You can bring a fresh fecal sample to the vet and they can check it to make sure she doesn't have any parasites. If the freshest is from the day before, just refrigerate it inside a plastic baggie until you bring it there--don't freeze it.


The cage looks pretty good and once you add the live plants it should be great--with better humidity and more leaves.
She will be more comfortable when it's higher up on the furniture.
I'm sure she will do well in your care.

 

[vgaines]

I used the eye wash and it seemed to help. She is opening the eye now. I am being a paranoid mom and have decided to take her to the vet later this afternoon. With her being so little I just don't want to chance it. I will put her in her traveling cage before we leave so that I might get a fecal sample...

I will be sure to post updates as soon as we get home. I am sure I will have lots of questions the next few months. Especially when it come close to egg laying time.

Thanks again,
Virginia

 

[vgaines]

Update on Raine

Well, we just got home from the vet and all is good. After a very detailed exam and a impression smear of eye fluid under the microscope it was determined that she has (conjunctival epithelial calls and inflammatory cells-heterophils)a possible eye infection. We left with eye drops and syringe's to flush eye prior to eye drops.

Other than the eye infection everything else looked great. Weight was good, heart rate normal. Doctor Scott used a light that allowed me to see heart beating and parts of the internal structure when overhead lights were turned off. Awesome thing to see if I say so myself..

If all goes according as planned we do not have to go back. Will give Dr Scott a call on Wednesday to let her know how Rains' eye is looking. If eye doesn't improve we will be back next Monday.

I will leave the 10.0 UVB light off tomorrow too and I already have a extra piece of screen under it for when its turned back on. Plants ( I picked up a cool twisted branch Hibiscus to put in the bottom of her enclosure) will be added as soon as I get them re-potted and put the river rock on them. (I could only find large Mexican Beach Rocks that were big enough...will they be OK?)

Thank ya'll so much for your feedback.
Virginia

 

[vgaines]

OK so I'm probably being silly but I just found Raine hanging from the top of her cage. She normally sleeps on a vine so it kinda worries me that she did something different tonight. I'm praying that she is just stressed from the vets visit and will be acting normal tomorrow.

 

[DavidBuchan]

Things like hanging upside down should never be considered unusual behaviour.....
Chams are weird...get used to that part....they like to make us worry.....it's what they do....
I'm sure from your vets diagnosis and the plan you have that she will be back to her old self pretty soon....

 

[Lovereps]

Well, we just got home from the vet and all is good. After a very detailed exam and a impression smear of eye fluid under the microscope it was determined that she has (conjunctival epithelial calls and inflammatory cells-heterophils)a possible eye infection. We left with eye drops and syringe's to flush eye prior to eye drops.

Good thing you got her to the vet while it was still a minor problem.
Out of curiosity, did you happen to ask the doctor if excessive UV could cause this inflammation?

Other than the eye infection everything else looked great. Weight was good, heart rate normal. Doctor Scott used a light that allowed me to see heart beating and parts of the internal structure when overhead lights were turned off. Awesome thing to see if I say so myself..

Dr Scott sounds absolutely awesome!

I will leave the 10.0 UVB light off tomorrow too and I already have a extra piece of screen under it for when its turned back on. Plants ( I picked up a cool twisted branch Hibiscus to put in the bottom of her enclosure) will be added as soon as I get them re-potted and put the river rock on them. (I could only find large Mexican Beach Rocks that were big enough...will they be OK?)

Thank ya'll so much for your feedback.
Virginia

Personally, I think it would be great if everyone's chams were healthy and kept in ideal conditions.
It is a pleasure to help someone who is so caring for their pets.

Seeing that it is a compact bulb, rather than linear, perhaps it's safer to switch to a 5.0 at least while she is so young or just raise the fixture up a bit.
If you do decide to change bulbs, you could get an inexpensive linear double bulb fixture and put a 6500K fluorescent bulb in it, with the 5.0 too, so that the plants get more light.
(6500K is just the color of light that some fluorecent bulbs put out and it is similar to sunlight colorwise, but does not put out UV.)

She will probably love the Hibiscus.
Just be sure to wash the leaves in dish soapy water and rinse a few times to get rid of any fertilizer or pesticide residues from the plant.
Some chams take bites out of the leaves, which is OK, since the plant isn't toxic to chams.
Hibiscus leaves can even be used in your feeders' gutloads.

Hope your little cham girl is all better soon!

 

[vgaines]

Good thing you got her to the vet while it was still a minor problem.
Out of curiosity, did you happen to ask the doctor if excessive UV could cause this inflammation?

I did ask about the excessive uv and she said that it was a possibility esp. since she is so tiny...



Dr Scott sounds absolutely awesome!

I thought so to. She took her time and made sure to show me what she was doing. I really thought it was cool that she showed me where different parts of Raine's internal structures were. She even let me look at the slide under the microscope so I could see what the cells looked like.





Personally, I think it would be great if everyone's chams were healthy and kept in ideal conditions.
It is a pleasure to help someone who is so caring for their pets.

Seeing that it is a compact bulb, rather than linear, perhaps it's safer to switch to a 5.0 at least while she is so young or just raise the fixture up a bit.
If you do decide to change bulbs, you could get an inexpensive linear double bulb fixture and put a 6500K fluorescent bulb in it, with the 5.0 too, so that the plants get more light.
(6500K is just the color of light that some fluorecent bulbs put out and it is similar to sunlight colorwise, but does not put out UV.)

I am going to raise the fixture as well as add another piece of screen under it.

She will probably love the Hibiscus.
Just be sure to wash the leaves in dish soapy water and rinse a few times to get rid of any fertilizer or pesticide residues from the plant.
Some chams take bites out of the leaves, which is OK, since the plant isn't toxic to chams.
Hibiscus leaves can even be used in your feeders' gutloads.

I also own an adopted baby bearded dragon (Fire) who will love the hibiscus as well.

Hope your little cham girl is all better soon!

Thank you so much. Her eye already looks much better. She is keeping it open and is as active as ever. I think that the eye wash, along with a break from the uvb and the eye drops prescribed by Dr. Scott was the answer. I am so thankful for everyone's advice. I believe that finding this forum and a great vet was the best thing I could have done for Raine.

 

[Lovereps]

Actually, the 10.0 would be perfect for your adopted beardie.
The worry about raising the light and adding more screening is that she might then not get enough UVB
The only way to know if it's enough for her is with a UVB meter.
That's why the 5.0 Reptisun is a far safer bet.

 

[Battlecat29]

I agree with the 5.0 reptisun

 

[vgaines]

Actually, the 10.0 would be perfect for your adopted beardie.
The worry about raising the light and adding more screening is that she might then not get enough UVB
The only way to know if it's enough for her is with a UVB meter.
That's why the 5.0 Reptisun is a far safer bet.

I went today and picked up a 5.0....I just bought two 10.0 so I will package this one up and keep until time to change my beardie's light again.

Dr Scott called to check on Raine and gave me the name of a man named Phillip something ( I was driving so I will google it in a bit and see if I can find is last name) who did a lot of work with Chameleon's.

When I checked on Raine when I got home from work her eye looked great. Can't tell which eye was swollen.. I'm super excited about that....

I can hardly wait for Raine to grow and become an adult. I will continue to do my best to keep her healthy and happy.

Thanks again for yalls support..

 

[PattyCake]

Yeah, just like Dave noted, hanging upside down is nothing unusual for a cham. Just make sure the cham doesn't burn itself

 

[vgaines]

Philippe De Vosjoli was the name Dr Scott gave me. She said his book on chameleon care was great. Just passing on the info...