Help please for Female Veiled Chameleon

P

ParkerJ

New Member
Hi All
I am a school teacher in London and the school has recently acquired a chameleon that I now have the responsibility of looking after. Not that I mind, I think they are amazing creatures, only I have no reptile experience and am unsure about some aspects. Info is as follows:

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Approximately 1-2 years old, Female, Veiled Chameleon
Handling - Handles well. At the moment is taken out every third day to have injection (see below) and does not mind. Will simply climb out onto my arm when I extend it towards her.
Feeding - Very fussy eater at the moment (again see below). 1 month ago was regularly eating 5-6 locusts/crickets and several mealworms, but is hardly eating at the moment.
Supplements - Calcium supplement in water
Watering - Cage is misted two-three times a day. I also place ice cubes on top of her enclosure which drip down leaves
Fecal Description - Some small orange ones, brown ones as well (pretty hard)
History - Unsure, have no contact with previous owner. She did lay one clutch of eggs when she first arrived (3-4 months ago) at the school. Had a lot of problems at start (very dark, not eating) but then moved her into greenhouse and she was fine. Then recently started spending lots of time on cage floor. I took her to vet as I thought she might be egg bound. The vet x-rays showed that she has follicles developing, but not eggs yet. However she still spends an awful lot of time on the floor and in her nesting box (not digging though). She is on a course of antibiotics at the moment (injection for 3 days, course of 5 injections) under vets recommendation. Her colour is mostly green with some brown spots, although she does appear green with traces o blue and orange.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage about 4'x2'x1.5'
Lighting & Temperature - 10 watt UVB light, long tube which hangs horizontally at top of cage about 12" from highest branch; this is on for 12hrs each day. One 150watt heat bulb (red) which is on a thermostat; basking temperature is about 33 degrees celsius, with varying degrees down to bottom of cage reaching about 25 degrees. The thermostat is tuned to a 10 degree drop overnight. This was all recommended to me by experts at Crystal Palace Reptiles. I have a thermometer in enclosure and try to keep an eye on temperature.
Humidity - Not sure about humidity. I do mist the enclosure two to three times a day.
Placement - The cage is by a window tucked out of the way in our living room at the moment. However when she returns to school she will be on a bench tucked into a corner in my classroom (or she can return to greenhouse).
There are loads of different size branches, and lots of foliage and 2 small live plants. She has a nesting box on the floor of the enclosure which is filled with moist sand.

Current Problem - I am just concerned by how much time she spends on the floor of her enclosure at the moment, she has been like this for about 10 days now. I thought they were meant to spend majority of time in branches? I have been doing so much reading but sometimes the advice is very conflicting. I understand she may be gravid, but how long should it take before laying? She was at the vets 4 days ago and had x-rays (as described above). I really like her (her name is Susan) and I feel very anxious to be giving her the best care possible.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!! Thank you!!
 
i dont know much about the main problem but i can say you should replace the red light with normal one (be it a standard incandescent house bulb or a new basking bulb) - they can see color so the red doesnt really help anything as far as i know.

she sounds like she could use a little more water... what are the antibiotics for?
 
I am going to be changing the bulb - think i will cut down on wattage too, for some reason I have gone through 2 bulbs in 3 days (even though they are correct for the set-up, i.e. the fittings can handle up to 200watts) so need a more cost effective solution. It's an exo-terra bulb, and I thought it was red due to the fact it stays on overnight?

The antibiotics were a precaution by the vet; she has nothing wrong as far as the vet can discern, but she thought it was better to be safe than sorry in case she was contracting something.

The thing is Susan loves (?) coming out of her cage (I assume as she clambers over to me and climbs out on my arm), and is incredibly active when out of it and seemingly very friendly and stays a lovely green colour. But once back in her cage she just sits down on floor. I am very worried that I have something wrong with the cage set-up but have set up as per what I have been reading, as am unsure where to go from here!!
 
The light should not be on overnight - the Chameleon needs to sleep! 12 hours on for the basking light as well as the uv. Vitamins are easiest to deliver in powder form if the Chameleon is eating. All food should have a light dusting with a phosphorous free calcium powder. A d3 supplement should be given twice a month. The orange in the faeces is what indicates dehydration. The urate section should be white/ yellowy.
 
Okay - I am worried about how to control temperature overnight then? As mentioned I am in London and it can get very cold at night, even indoors and am worried that during winter the temperature will drop too low? Or am I worrying too much?

And as for water, I mist 2-3 times a day, each time emptying half a litre spray bottle. I am worried about dehydration but she does drink at each misting. I have started the ice cubes as a way for her to have more frequent access to dripping water, but I am concerned about her hydration. Any tips on how to hydrate more successfully (and feed!) would also be appreciated!!
 
Susan if I read the conversion right, 33 deg celsius is about 91 degrees. Maybe that is too hot for her and that is why she going towards the bottom. I would try and drop that basking temp atleast 5 degrees. Just use a white housebulb, try about a 50 watt. Are you sure you are only getting a 33 degree temp with a 150 watt bulb? How are you measuring your temps? All of us members dust our feeders with calcium, not put calcium in the water. Does your calcium contain d3? I guess you are not using any type of multivitamin either? You need to get something to measure your humidity. Could you post a pic of her please and a picture of your set up also if possible? Get a dripper for the cage for drinking.
 
its best to not leave a heat bulb on at night, typically no heat is required at night.

you should try a standard house bulb, lie 60 or 75 watts and see what the temp gets too and go from there, they are super cheap! for some reason when i use them though they dont get my basking spot hot enough so im using the zoo med basking bulb.

if you can take a few pictures of her set up that would be really helpful, the quality doesnt matter much if you can provide a couple so we can get an idea whats going on.

you may have mention it before but.. do you have an egg laying bin set up?
 
For adult Veileds the temps can comfortably drop into the 50s at night.
 
Ok, the temperatures were set for me per the advice from the breeder at Crystal Palace Reptiles, but I agree I was thinking that it might be too hot (however she was still exhibiting this behaviour prior to me installing this light set-up which I did about 3 days ago).

I measure the temperature with an analogue exo-terra thermometer which is set up with the probe about 9 inches from the heat bulb, and this reads 27degrees mostly during the day. With the basking spot, the heat probe from the thermostat is located here so i assume it keeps it at the set 33 degrees celsius. Is there something more effective I could do?

I do have calcium powder, but as she is not eating the vet recommended I use liquid calcium so that she is still getting it (in preparation for developing eggs). I was using it about twice a week. Yes both calcium supplements contain 3D, not i am not using a multivitamin at the moment but I will once she starts eating again!

Yes i do have an egg laying bin set up (which she has previously layed in) and am keeping the sand moist. How can I post photos on her?

Thank you very much for your interest and help, I am very grateful!!
 
Welcome to the forum to you and Susan both. Getting attached to these wonderful chameleons is a part of life for all of us here.


That she has gout was also my first thought. Why did the vet feel Susan needed the meds? I would think they would only stress her more and unless they are for a particular condition, I might not do it. BUT I AM NOT A VET. A lot of meds have the chams not wanting to eat. What have you tried to feed her? Do you have access to silk worms or horn worms? Often you can get a cham to take a worm faster that other foods.

How cold does it get in your home at night? If it gets really cold (below 13 C) them you might consider a ceramic heater. It does not emit light but does emit heat. Make very sure the cham can not touch the heater - they burn, my hand hurt for days. Also you could use a small space heater but that is less efficient.

People often say put ice cubes on cages, but a dripper with room temp water works much better. A cham does not drink from ice cubes in the wild. Even try a styrofoam cup with a pin hole in the bottom as a dripper. The orange in her urate indicates she is dehydrated to some degree, having a dripper dripping onto leaves where she can lick it may help. This is how they do it in nature. The more you mist and she drinks the better for Susan at this point. She needs as much water as you can get her to take.

Here is some information about Gout from a very knowledgeable, longtime, chameleon keeper. Hope it helps.

kinyonga
Senior Member



Are any claws missing or damaged near the swollen area?

It could be gout or it could be an infection....a vet will be able to tell you.

You may have read some of these already...
http://www.mythicalchameleons.com/vetcases.htm#gout

You said that you didn't use dog food or cat food, but gout can be caused by other things too...
http://www.all-creatures.com/site/vi...id=4497k8au7kj
"Excess vitamin D3 supplementation especially in combination with calcium may result in organ toxicity. Metastatic calcification and gout are common results. Gular edema or pseudo gout is a common clinical sign of these problems. The pseudo-gout (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs. "

http://animalark.eapps.com/animal/CIN/ContentMgmt.nsf/Trouble/$first?OpenDocument
"Kidney failure may culminate in gout"
 
Hi

The vet did mention gout, but didn't think it was a very strong possibility.
Unfortunately I am limited by school funding, I wanted to have bloodwork done but it was a further 80 quid (after already spending 100 quid) and the school gave me a fairly firm 'no'. I do not have the funds myself at the moment to get the bloodwork done, but I will go back after payday and do that if necessary.
I offer her a selection of locusts and crickets and small worms (all which are gut loaded). She used to eat loads, but has recently become very fussy and does not appear interested in food.
I will be trying the styrofoam cup - again I would like to get a dripper, but spent 140 pounds on all the new light fittings etc (which I have yet to tell the school about). It is very frustrating for me to be limited by funds; as it is school holidays at the moment I also am having trouble getting in touch with a teacher that can give me a more reasonable allowance for susan.
I will read the articles about gout - but are there any other symptoms I would be able to spot that are also associated with gout?

Thanks again for all your help
 
I have just done some research on gout - I am not sure if it is likely. Her diet is not high in protein, I can touch her legs and joints without her showing any discomfort or aggression and she can move around very well and does not show any problems with this. However I am concerned about her dehydration which could possibly lead to gout - I will increase her mistings and maybe try her on a plant in the shower!!

In terms of my enclosure set up (third photo link) is there anything I need to improve or change that hasn't already been mentioned?
Thank you all again!!
 
You said..."She did lay one clutch of eggs when she first arrived (3-4 months ago) at the school."...they can lay a clutch every 120 to 130 days. You said you have a container set up...is it a minimum 12" deep x 12" x 8"...opaque and filled almost full of washed playsand? I know you said that the vet said it was only follicles....but how did he determine it wasn't eggs?
 
Last edited:
Yes she does - it is the same container she laid in previously and it is filled with play sand which i keep moist. She has not showed any signs of digging yet though, she just hangs out in it!
 
This is a long thread and I may have missed it....did you lower her temperatures?

Here's some information I hope will help concerning gutloading, supplements, etc.....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it. At that size you only need to feed it every two or three days. Feed it enough that it doesn't get fat (and, of course, doesn't get thin either).

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium). Not sure how to tell you to dust WC insects if that is what you will be doing.

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here's a link to keeping veiled females...
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
 
Thank you very much. I am on a very big learning curve at the moment!! I just want her to be healthy and happy, I am very attached to her now, especially since she has started clambering towards me when I approach and climbing onto my hand!
 
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