Help please chameleon may be on the verge of death

[nuclearstephen]

Hello I have raised my chameleon almost from an egg and he always been healthy but something has changed I am not sure exactly what is going on. In the attached pictures that are dark (sorry for that try not disturb him) you can see that he is hardly holding on to the ledge while he is sleeping like he has no strength left.

Also in the pictures where it is light his color is way way lighter than it should be. He is yellow and red which is his distressed colors he should be green and blue as in the last pictures. Its been in the 90s where I am so I haven't had the heat lamp on. I just dont know.

I also include pictures of the setup in case something is causing this.

(note that the wiring is on top of the cage because his roommate is a rabbit that likes to chew on wires.

 

[NashansCamos]

Is he in the same cage as the rabbit?

 

[nightanole]

Hes got MBD. its "light" so you are just getting broken bones and neurological issues. Calcium etc are using to help muscles contract. So you are going to need to redo your lighting and D3 schedule.

 

[nuclearstephen]

No he is not. He is caged in one of these https://dragonstrand.com/clear-side-enclosures/ (the large one) the rabbit just shares the room

 

[nuclearstephen]

View attachment 275043


Hes got MBD. its "light" so you are just getting broken bones and neurological issues. Calcium etc are using to help muscles contract. So you are going to need to redo your lighting and D3 schedule.

Woah my heart sank. How can you tell?

 

[nightanole]

Woah my heart sank. How can you tell?

His tail has been broken and healed in at least 2 places. Odds are you have some rib fractures too. And the whole weakness and no grip is another dead give away for the early part of the disease. The limb muscles are very strong and will be the last to break. Again you are in the first 1/4 of the disease. He had a good enough d3/calcium/phosphorus balance to make it to adult hood without warped bones. But his bones are very weak, and without a good calcium/phosphorus balance he wont be able to use is muscles.

 

[NashansCamos]

I don't think that your uvb runs the entire width of the cage and his sticks are too low for him to get the uvb. He also may have incorrect supplements. Please copy and paste this form and fill it out so we know what caused the MBD and how to fix it. Also, you'll want to find a good reptile vet in your area to give him calcium shots or whatever.

 

[NashansCamos]

here is the form

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Beman]

Hi there... please fill out the form. Additionally to what @nightanole has already pointed out.... You have a dragon strand cage that is not being fully utilized. He has no horizontal branches, The plants look like they have all died off and look very dry. He has no where to hide or feel safe or the ability to bask properly.

Dragon strands give you the ability to mount branches and you have yours set up to have live plants as well. You need to rework the cage IMO so it can be set up properly so he can access the UVB and so that his stress reduces.

This is what you can do with a dragon strand and branches https://www.chameleonforums.com/media/albums/my-enclosures.6672/

This is a tutorial on how to utilize this cage https://dragonstrand.com/getting-the-most-from-your-dragon-strand-dragon-ledges/

I would go through this Husbandry program as well as it has total detail for how to set up your enclosure https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

Here is a link to plants you can use. https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Chameleon-Plants-122819.pdf

You can use branches from your yard as long as they are not from sap producing trees... So no pine, cedar, eucalyptus etc.

 

[NashansCamos]

The Dragon strand cage is a very good cage and you should be using it to its full potential! all of the links above are great resources for you to utilize the great cage you have

 

[radstusky]

You should be able to save him. As others have said, you should replace the dead plants and get a lot more plants in there. Pothos are always a good option as they are easy to keep alive and can fill up the cage fairly quickly. Also for supplementation, I believe that Repashy calcium plus is a good option for panthers and you can give it to him every day.

 

[mujino]

Poor guy doesn’t have anywhere to hide, and I bet he can’t get close enough (but still not too close) to get his UVB. Just from the pics, he’s going to need a bit of a remodel in there stat, but the MBD and supplementation is your immediate concern before he gets sick. That said, there are a lot of experts here to help guide you through this. Please fill out the form so you can get the best help for your boy

 

[nuclearstephen]

His tail has been broken and healed in at least 2 places. Odds are you have some rib fractures too. And the whole weakness and no grip is another dead give away for the early part of the disease. The limb muscles are very strong and will be the last to break. Again you are in the first 1/4 of the disease. He had a good enough d3/calcium/phosphorus balance to make it to adult hood without warped bones. But his bones are very weak, and without a good calcium/phosphorus balance he wont be able to use is muscles.

I could see why you would say that put I think the image is distorting it because his tail is very straight if you could se eit in person and it doesnt appear to have been broken but I wouldnt really know if it could have broken and still appear aligned

 

[nuclearstephen]

here is the form

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Panther Chameleon Male 1.5 years old I have had him since he was two weeks out of the egg

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

I do not handle him expect when it is extremely sunny outside so maybe every couple months I might take him outside

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

alternating between mealworms and super worms and every two weeks some horn worms using calcium, d3, and herptivite

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Repticalcium 2 out of three feedings, d3, every three feedings herptivite every four feeding
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • automatic mister that sprays every 4 hours for two minutes
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • never tested for parasites but his waste is black and his urine sack is white to off white
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • lived a very relaxed life or so I thought

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • as stated above it is the large dragonstand with clear stretch plastic on three sides and mesh on two sides, I have a small fan that pblows into the bottom on the side with the mesh
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • this is what I think was causing the issue, I checked my receipts and it turns out the UV I was using is 9 months old. replaced it today with REPTISUN 10 24"
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Its been 90-95 with high humidity where I live so I haven't been using any heating recently
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • The cage is bioactive with a fern and a house plant it has isopods running around with dubia and I also accidental dropped some super worms that later hatched as beetles that he ate.
  • -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 | bic446 | Forest Springtails | $9.00 | $9.00
    
    3 | bic233 | Blaberus fusca Cockroach | $2.00 | $6.00
    
    1 | bic798 | Isopod Substrate | $19.99 | $23.00
    Substrate Type: Composite + HW Cup +$3.01
    
    1 | bic700 | Sow Bugs Gray Porcellio (15 ct.)
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • cage is elevated in the room and isolated
• Location - Where are you geographically located?I am in california bay area

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

the current problem is that he is showin g sines of weakness and keeping his eyes closed during the day sometimes. also hes been much lighter than he normally is. He is eating fine but but it seems like he is finding it difficult to maintain his grip. I have included more pictures from today


--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[MissSkittles]

Putting my feedback in red.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Panther Chameleon Male 1.5 years old I have had him since he was two weeks out of the egg

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

I do not handle him expect when it is extremely sunny outside so maybe every couple months I might take him outside

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

alternating between mealworms and super worms and every two weeks some horn worms using calcium, d3, and herptivite Mealworms are not very nutritious and can be hard to digest. Superworms and hornworms are for occasional treats. Attaching feeder & gutload graphics for you. At his age he should be getting fed every other day. He is looking chubby. Obesity can cause several health problems.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Repticalcium 2 out of three feedings, d3, every three feedings herptivite every four feeding He should be getting calcium without D3 at every feeding except one per week. That one weekly feeding you will give calcium with D3 and the next week a multivitamin.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • automatic mister that sprays every 4 hours for two minutes You could reduce the misting to just 3-4 times a day.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • never tested for parasites but his waste is black and his urine sack is white to off white It’s always a good idea to have a fecal check for parasites.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • lived a very relaxed life or so I thought

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • as stated above it is the large dragonstand with clear stretch plastic on three sides and mesh on two sides, I have a small fan that pblows into the bottom on the side with the mesh
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • this is what I think was causing the issue, I checked my receipts and it turns out the UV I was using is 9 months old. replaced it today with REPTISUN 10 24" This is a T5? You should only need a 5.0 uvb. If you get Arcadia, you would want a 6% and it’s good for a year.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Its been 90-95 with high humidity where I live so I haven't been using any heating recently This is a bit hot for him. His basking area shouldn’t go any higher than 90*. What are the temps lower in his enclosure?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Is important to know/monitor your humidity. Should be between 50-70% during the day. Hygrometers are pretty inexpensive.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • The cage is bioactive with a fern and a house plant it has isopods running around with dubia and I also accidental dropped some super worms that later hatched as beetles that he ate.
  • -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 | bic446 | Forest Springtails | $9.00 | $9.00
    
    3 | bic233 | Blaberus fusca Cockroach | $2.00 | $6.00
    
    1 | bic798 | Isopod Substrate | $19.99 | $23.00
    Substrate Type: Composite + HW Cup +$3.01
    
    1 | bic700 | Sow Bugs Gray Porcellio (15 ct.)
  • Bioactive is awesome, but your plants don’t look so good. You also need more and some up higher to create a little canopy. You have a beautiful Dragon Strand enclosure and really need to better utilize the dragon ledges. He needs more cover and more branches and vines to climb on. Fill the enclosure up so you really have to look for a few minutes to find him.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • cage is elevated in the room and isolated
• Location - Where are you geographically located?I am in california bay area

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

the current problem is that he is showin g sines of weakness and keeping his eyes closed during the day sometimes. also hes been much lighter than he normally is. He is eating fine but but it seems like he is finding it difficult to maintain his grip. I have included more pictures from today
Like others, my immediate thought is MBD. However if anything it sounds like he’s been getting too much D3. I’m not certain, but I believe the signs of too much D3 can also include weakness. Let me call in those with more knowledge & experience than me. @Beman @JacksJill @kinyonga @nightanole

 

[nightanole]

I could see why you would say that put I think the image is distorting it because his tail is very straight if you could se eit in person and it doesnt appear to have been broken but I wouldnt really know if it could have broken and still appear aligned

Looks good. And you have a brand new T8 reptisun 10.0. That should be find for cages 4ft tall and shorter. and you are supplimenting with D3 and using herpvite. So im out of answers since now it does not appear to be a UV or supplement problem.

Ill let others chime in if you can give us any more info that might clue another user in. It really doesnt matter if your gut load is not perfect, or of your supplement sched is not perfect as long as it happens a few times a month.

 

[nuclearstephen]

Hi there... please fill out the form. Additionally to what @nightanole has already pointed out.... You have a dragon strand cage that is not being fully utilized. He has no horizontal branches, The plants look like they have all died off and look very dry. He has no where to hide or feel safe or the ability to bask properly.

Dragon strands give you the ability to mount branches and you have yours set up to have live plants as well. You need to rework the cage IMO so it can be set up properly so he can access the UVB and so that his stress reduces.

This is what you can do with a dragon strand and branches https://www.chameleonforums.com/media/albums/my-enclosures.6672/

This is a tutorial on how to utilize this cage https://dragonstrand.com/getting-the-most-from-your-dragon-strand-dragon-ledges/

I would go through this Husbandry program as well as it has total detail for how to set up your enclosure https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

Here is a link to plants you can use. https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Chameleon-Plants-122819.pdf

You can use branches from your yard as long as they are not from sap producing trees... So no pine, cedar, eucalyptus etc.

I am replying now but I am also taking your advice seriously. When I can afford it I will take into account the upgrades you recommend. Thanks..

 

[nuclearstephen]

Putting my feedback in red.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Panther Chameleon Male 1.5 years old I have had him since he was two weeks out of the egg

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

I do not handle him expect when it is extremely sunny outside so maybe every couple months I might take him outside

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

alternating between mealworms and super worms and every two weeks some horn worms using calcium, d3, and herptivite Mealworms are not very nutritious and can be hard to digest. Superworms and hornworms are for occasional treats. Attaching feeder & gutload graphics for you. At his age he should be getting fed every other day. He is looking chubby. Obesity can cause several health problems.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Repticalcium 2 out of three feedings, d3, every three feedings herptivite every four feeding He should be getting calcium without D3 at every feeding except one per week. That one weekly feeding you will give calcium with D3 and the next week a multivitamin.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • automatic mister that sprays every 4 hours for two minutes You could reduce the misting to just 3-4 times a day.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • never tested for parasites but his waste is black and his urine sack is white to off white It’s always a good idea to have a fecal check for parasites.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • lived a very relaxed life or so I thought

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • as stated above it is the large dragonstand with clear stretch plastic on three sides and mesh on two sides, I have a small fan that pblows into the bottom on the side with the mesh
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • this is what I think was causing the issue, I checked my receipts and it turns out the UV I was using is 9 months old. replaced it today with REPTISUN 10 24" This is a T5? You should only need a 5.0 uvb. If you get Arcadia, you would want a 6% and it’s good for a year.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Its been 90-95 with high humidity where I live so I haven't been using any heating recently This is a bit hot for him. His basking area shouldn’t go any higher than 90*. What are the temps lower in his enclosure?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Is important to know/monitor your humidity. Should be between 50-70% during the day. Hygrometers are pretty inexpensive.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • The cage is bioactive with a fern and a house plant it has isopods running around with dubia and I also accidental dropped some super worms that later hatched as beetles that he ate.
  • -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 | bic446 | Forest Springtails | $9.00 | $9.00
    
    3 | bic233 | Blaberus fusca Cockroach | $2.00 | $6.00
    
    1 | bic798 | Isopod Substrate | $19.99 | $23.00
    Substrate Type: Composite + HW Cup +$3.01
    
    1 | bic700 | Sow Bugs Gray Porcellio (15 ct.)
  • Bioactive is awesome, but your plants don’t look so good. You also need more and some up higher to create a little canopy. You have a beautiful Dragon Strand enclosure and really need to better utilize the dragon ledges. He needs more cover and more branches and vines to climb on. Fill the enclosure up so you really have to look for a few minutes to find him.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • cage is elevated in the room and isolated
• Location - Where are you geographically located?I am in california bay area

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

the current problem is that he is showin g sines of weakness and keeping his eyes closed during the day sometimes. also hes been much lighter than he normally is. He is eating fine but but it seems like he is finding it difficult to maintain his grip. I have included more pictures from today
Like others, my immediate thought is MBD. However if anything it sounds like he’s been getting too much D3. I’m not certain, but I believe the signs of too much D3 can also include weakness. Let me call in those with more knowledge & experience than me. @Beman @JacksJill @kinyonga @nightanole
View attachment 275105View attachment 275106

I haven't replied but I just wanted to say thank you now for your reply because yes you have brought to my attention problems I already recognized but I wasn't giving enough seriousness too. I always had in the back of my mind since I started this terrarium that I would let the plants grow but I have to give him that privacy now so I will just have to do that. Also, I increased his D3 supplementation and that appears to have worked as he is back to his normal self. To be quite honest with you I was not giving him the calcium as regular as I should, as in every time, because I felt bad for him, like I don't want him to have to eat powdery food every time. But I guess such is his fate. Thank you for taking the time to reply. As i can afford better and better he will get better and better. Cheers.

 

[MissSkittles]

I haven't replied but I just wanted to say thank you now for your reply because yes you have brought to my attention problems I already recognized but I wasn't giving enough seriousness too. I always had in the back of my mind since I started this terrarium that I would let the plants grow but I have to give him that privacy now so I will just have to do that. Also, I increased his D3 supplementation and that appears to have worked as he is back to his normal self. To be quite honest with you I was not giving him the calcium as regular as I should, as in every time, because I felt bad for him, like I don't want him to have to eat powdery food every time. But I guess such is his fate. Thank you for taking the time to reply. As i can afford better and better he will get better and better. Cheers.

You are very welcome. I’m glad you’re sweet guy is doing better. I’m also very glad that you’re realizing how important proper husbandry is. Every aspect is just as important as the others to have right or your cham will fail to thrive or worse.
It’s a funny coincidence that you say that about feeling bad about giving your cham powdery food. I was just feeding my leopard gecko’s and felt bad that they have to eat dusted bugs. They need it though, so we need to feel positive about taking good care of them.