Help Please - Burning concern with new Veiled Chameleon

ShreknDonkeh

New Member
Hello All! I am excited to become part of this community and I cannot wait to learn more about my chameleon :D That being said, this is my first chameleon - My roommate has had some experience with reptiles and has helped a ton in helping me make my chameleon Yasmin comfortable in her new home. However, we decided to reach out due to possible discoloration on her sides. I am worried these might be thermal burns due to her little perches being to close to the sun :( Any advice is appreciated and I thank you for reading!
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species: Veiled Chameleon ,Gender: Female, and age of your chameleon: 4-7 months She has been under my ownership for about 1.7 weeks.
  • Handling - Trying to assist with acclamation to her new climate. I've only handled her on a couple occasions to clean her poops and adjust (fix, add to) her enclosure.
  • Feeding - I am feeding my Cham crickets (Calcium Dusted), cilantro, strawberries, banana, super worms and the occasional mealworm. She eats about 10 crickets per day and her small morning salad ( about 3 ounces cilantro, bananas and dandelion greens.) She eats at about noon and then again at 5:30-ish. I am gut loading my feeders with carrots, dandelion greens and almond slivers
  • Supplements - I dust the crickets with calcium every time I feed her. The brand is Zoo med reptile calcium. It does not include D3.
  • Watering - She has a little water-well at the bottom of her cage that only dispenses a bit at a time. I change it about every 2 days. I mist about 4 times a day for about 1-3 minutes. I have only seen her drink twice with her tongue.
  • Fecal Description - Standard poop I hope - Not runny or too dry - a bit of white. She has not been tested for parasites.
  • History - My roommate and I adopted this chameleon out of a small glass tank that she occupied with two other larger males. This is my first veiled chameleon and tried my best to educate myself about these amazing creatures. She has developed quite a personality ( not in a bad way lol) and is very active.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - I went to my local pet store and picked up a mesh cage. The dimensions are H 16" L X 16" W X 30" The brand is Zoo med Repti Breeze.
  • Lighting - After doing some research I decided to opt out of the light that this specific kit came with. I am unscrewed the little blue bulb that the kit came with and replaced it ReptiSun 5.0 UV. The other light that I added was a basking light. My roommate helped me shop for one and I cannot find the box. It is a flat wide, football shaped light that is attached with springs and little hooks to the mesh. The little sticker on the side indicates it is a 7 watt. I know nothing about light bulbs and My roommate helped me with the selection - I texted her and will provide this information ASAP. I am saving for the other lights I have seen recommended here in the forums that are long and skinny rather than flat and square. I turn her light on around 9 and then turn it off around dusk ( 6:45- 7:10) both the basking and the UV
  • Temperature - The lowest temp is around 70 I suppose at the bottom of the cage - the hottest would probably be around 83-86 degrees. Her lowest temperature overnight in her enclosure was 64 degrees. I turned the heat on for a bit and that seemed to help. I have one indicator at the base of the cage and one wrapped around a little branch in the center. I measure her basking light now and then to make sure they are below 88 degrees. I place my hand under her light too, I want to make sure she is comfortable.
  • Humidity - Her humidity levels are around 58. I misread the information when I first put her in her enclosure and was trying to maintain it around 80 >.<After reading how this can cause the chameleon to be sick (RI I think?) I started to taper off. I am misting her about 4 times a day for about 1-3 minutes depending on how much moisture is on her plants. I use a indicator the is set in the middle of the enclosure.
  • Plants - Artificial Plants- none live.
  • Placement - The cage is located near a traffic area is moderate. She is located outside of my bedroom door in the living room away from direct sunlight or vents/heating. She is on a small yet very sturdy coffee table located about 6 inches off the ground to help assist with me feeding her ( bad hips lol)
  • Location - Central Washington, United States

Current Problem - Possible Thermal Burns, General Health and How to make her more comfortable
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hello All! I am excited to become part of this community and I cannot wait to learn more about my chameleon :D That being said, this is my first chameleon - My roommate has had some experience with reptiles and has helped a ton in helping me make my chameleon Yasmin comfortable in her new home. However, we decided to reach out due to possible discoloration on her sides. I am worried these might be thermal burns due to her little perches being to close to the sun :( Any advice is appreciated and I thank you for reading!
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species: Veiled Chameleon ,Gender: Female, and age of your chameleon: 4-7 months She has been under my ownership for about 1.7 weeks.
  • Handling - Trying to assist with acclamation to her new climate. I've only handled her on a couple occasions to clean her poops and adjust (fix, add to) her enclosure.
  • Feeding - I am feeding my Cham crickets (Calcium Dusted), cilantro, strawberries, banana, super worms and the occasional mealworm. She eats about 10 crickets per day and her small morning salad ( about 3 ounces cilantro, bananas and dandelion greens.) She eats at about noon and then again at 5:30-ish. I am gut loading my feeders with carrots, dandelion greens and almond slivers
  • Supplements - I dust the crickets with calcium every time I feed her. The brand is Zoo med reptile calcium. It does not include D3.
  • Watering - She has a little water-well at the bottom of her cage that only dispenses a bit at a time. I change it about every 2 days. I mist about 4 times a day for about 1-3 minutes. I have only seen her drink twice with her tongue.
  • Fecal Description - Standard poop I hope - Not runny or too dry - a bit of white. She has not been tested for parasites.
  • History - My roommate and I adopted this chameleon out of a small glass tank that she occupied with two other larger males. This is my first veiled chameleon and tried my best to educate myself about these amazing creatures. She has developed quite a personality ( not in a bad way lol) and is very active.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - I went to my local pet store and picked up a mesh cage. The dimensions are H 16" L X 16" W X 30" The brand is Zoo med Repti Breeze.
  • Lighting - After doing some research I decided to opt out of the light that this specific kit came with. I am unscrewed the little blue bulb that the kit came with and replaced it ReptiSun 5.0 UV. The other light that I added was a basking light. My roommate helped me shop for one and I cannot find the box. It is a flat wide, football shaped light that is attached with springs and little hooks to the mesh. The little sticker on the side indicates it is a 7 watt. I know nothing about light bulbs and My roommate helped me with the selection - I texted her and will provide this information ASAP. I am saving for the other lights I have seen recommended here in the forums that are long and skinny rather than flat and square. I turn her light on around 9 and then turn it off around dusk ( 6:45- 7:10) both the basking and the UV
  • Temperature - The lowest temp is around 70 I suppose at the bottom of the cage - the hottest would probably be around 83-86 degrees. Her lowest temperature overnight in her enclosure was 64 degrees. I turned the heat on for a bit and that seemed to help. I have one indicator at the base of the cage and one wrapped around a little branch in the center. I measure her basking light now and then to make sure they are below 88 degrees. I place my hand under her light too, I want to make sure she is comfortable.
  • Humidity - Her humidity levels are around 58. I misread the information when I first put her in her enclosure and was trying to maintain it around 80 >.<After reading how this can cause the chameleon to be sick (RI I think?) I started to taper off. I am misting her about 4 times a day for about 1-3 minutes depending on how much moisture is on her plants. I use a indicator the is set in the middle of the enclosure.
  • Plants - Artificial Plants- none live.
  • Placement - The cage is located near a traffic area is moderate. She is located outside of my bedroom door in the living room away from direct sunlight or vents/heating. She is on a small yet very sturdy coffee table located about 6 inches off the ground to help assist with me feeding her ( bad hips lol)
  • Location - Central Washington, United States

Current Problem - Possible Thermal Burns, General Health and How to make her more comfortable
Ok hun bare with me while I go through all this. Can you take additional pics of what you think to be a thermal burn?
 

Thehippie

Chameleon Enthusiast
just wanna point out that you are going to need a lay bin for her but she is definitely not 7 months... more like 3-4... when she hits 6 months that is sexual maturity and you will need a lay bin regardless of whether shes been with a male. she will lay infertile eggs.

edit: could you take a picture of her with the size comparison of your hand, I may have misinterpreted her age
 
Last edited:

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hi there and welcome to the forum. Thank you for being detailed in your form... See all remarks in Red Bold. This will be overwhelming because I am giving you a ton of info... Just keep referring back to this to make corrections.
  • Your Chameleon - The species: Veiled Chameleon ,Gender: Female, and age of your chameleon: 4-7 months She has been under my ownership for about 1.7 weeks.
  • Handling - Trying to assist with acclamation to her new climate. I've only handled her on a couple occasions to clean her poops and adjust (fix, add to) her enclosure.
  • Feeding - I am feeding my Cham crickets (Calcium Dusted), cilantro, strawberries, banana, super worms and the occasional mealworm. She eats about 10 crickets per day and her small morning salad ( about 3 ounces cilantro, bananas and dandelion greens.) She eats at about noon and then again at 5:30-ish. I am gut loading my feeders with carrots, dandelion greens and almond slivers Ok.... So with the salad your giving her stick to leafy greens from the Gutload image along with what you need to be gutloading with. You want it to be heavy on the greens fruits last.. Think of the image as a food pyramid. You are also rotating these week over week for nutrient diversity. She should be fed in the morning. All feeders at once.. This gives her all day to bask and digest. No mealworms they are low in nutrients. See image.
  • Supplements - I dust the crickets with calcium every time I feed her. The brand is Zoo med reptile calcium. It does not include D3. She will need calcium without D3 at every feeding, calcium with D3 2 times a month, and a multivitamin 2 times a month. These two should alternate week over week. See image.
  • Watering - She has a little water-well at the bottom of her cage that only dispenses a bit at a time. I change it about every 2 days. I mist about 4 times a day for about 1-3 minutes. I have only seen her drink twice with her tongue. Nope water well has to go... Bacteria is a high concern here. If she poops in it or a feeder falls into it then she is drinking that. So little dripper or you can do an auto dripper like in this thread. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/automatic-drip-system-using-pump-instructions-the-better-little-dripper.169471/ Misting is good. You may want to invest in a mist king misting system. :)
  • Fecal Description - Standard poop I hope - Not runny or too dry - a bit of white. She has not been tested for parasites. Is it orange/yellow with the white? This is called the Urate. I would get a fecal done to be sure she does not have parasites.
  • History - My roommate and I adopted this chameleon out of a small glass tank that she occupied with two other larger males. This is my first veiled chameleon and tried my best to educate myself about these amazing creatures. She has developed quite a personality ( not in a bad way lol) and is very active. She does not look to be all that old.. So hopefully no issues of fertile eggs here.

Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - I went to my local pet store and picked up a mesh cage. The dimensions are H 16" L X 16" W X 30" The brand is Zoo med Repti Breeze. Your going to want to get a 2x2x4 enclosure..... www.dragonstrand.com or diycages.com are both much better choices then zoo med. you need this size to accommodate a permanent lay bin. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345/
  • Lighting - After doing some research I decided to opt out of the light that this specific kit came with. I am unscrewed the little blue bulb that the kit came with and replaced it ReptiSun 5.0 UV. The other light that I added was a basking light. My roommate helped me shop for one and I cannot find the box. It is a flat wide, football shaped light that is attached with springs and little hooks to the mesh. The little sticker on the side indicates it is a 7 watt. I know nothing about light bulbs and My roommate helped me with the selection - I texted her and will provide this information ASAP. I am saving for the other lights I have seen recommended here in the forums that are long and skinny rather than flat and square. I turn her light on around 9 and then turn it off around dusk ( 6:45- 7:10) both the basking and the UV Lights should be on for 12 hours then total darkness for 12 hours. I am guessing you are using screw in UVB bulbs... You must upgrade this to a T5HO fixture with a 10.0 zoo med bulb or a 12% arcadia. I buy my fixtures from lightyourreptiles.com... You wan this to be the length of her permanent enclosure. So 24 inches. Yes it can hang off the sides of the current enclosure. :) see image.
  • Temperature - The lowest temp is around 70 I suppose at the bottom of the cage - the hottest would probably be around 83-86 degrees. Her lowest temperature overnight in her enclosure was 64 degrees. I turned the heat on for a bit and that seemed to help. I have one indicator at the base of the cage and one wrapped around a little branch in the center. I measure her basking light now and then to make sure they are below 88 degrees. I place my hand under her light too, I want to make sure she is comfortable. This is perfect as long as the temp at the branch is about 82 then she will not be warmer then 85. Using a heat gun will help you know exacts and they are about 15 bucks on amazon. No colored bulbs though..
  • Humidity - Her humidity levels are around 58. I misread the information when I first put her in her enclosure and was trying to maintain it around 80 >.<After reading how this can cause the chameleon to be sick (RI I think?) I started to taper off. I am misting her about 4 times a day for about 1-3 minutes depending on how much moisture is on her plants. I use a indicator the is set in the middle of the enclosure. So for Veileds you want a daytime humidity level of 30-50% max... At night is when you want this higher... When it is cooler. Most use foggers at night for this. Here is a good podcast... https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-89-naturalistic-hydration-for-chameleons/
  • Plants - Artificial Plants- none live.
  • Placement - The cage is located near a traffic area is moderate. She is located outside of my bedroom door in the living room away from direct sunlight or vents/heating. She is on a small yet very sturdy coffee table located about 6 inches off the ground to help assist with me feeding her ( bad hips lol) So... 6 inches off the ground will be an issue for her. Since they are arboreal they prefer to be up high. Try to find a table that she can sit up higher on that will accommodate your hip as well.
  • Location - Central Washington, United States

Current Problem - Possible Thermal Burns, General Health and How to make her more comfortable... Good news is no sign of thermal burns. These are her markings that are showing... classic female markings.

Notes on what I can see if your cage... Take out the hammock and the hide a hole thing... Think trees and live plants. Pothos and dwarf umbrella are wonderful. 1 inch river rock should be put on the top of the soil to keep her from eating it. :)

Additional resource...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

The care images can be downloaded at this link for an easy printed reference tool.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/images/
 

Attachments

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Here are some pictures that are hopefully clearer. I have read about her eggs - I have already invested in a small bin and sand when the time comes, I'm glad to hear it won't be for a bit. Thank you for the knowledge on her age :)
By small bin... What do you mean... Go off the link I gave in the feedback in your help form. They are particular when it comes to where they lay. You will want to read up on all things female here lol. No sign of thermal burn. THese are normal female markings.
 

ShreknDonkeh

New Member
Hi there and welcome to the forum. Thank you for being detailed in your form... See all remarks in Red Bold. This will be overwhelming because I am giving you a ton of info... Just keep referring back to this to make corrections.
  • Your Chameleon - The species: Veiled Chameleon ,Gender: Female, and age of your chameleon: 4-7 months She has been under my ownership for about 1.7 weeks.
  • Handling - Trying to assist with acclamation to her new climate. I've only handled her on a couple occasions to clean her poops and adjust (fix, add to) her enclosure.
  • Feeding - I am feeding my Cham crickets (Calcium Dusted), cilantro, strawberries, banana, super worms and the occasional mealworm. She eats about 10 crickets per day and her small morning salad ( about 3 ounces cilantro, bananas and dandelion greens.) She eats at about noon and then again at 5:30-ish. I am gut loading my feeders with carrots, dandelion greens and almond slivers Ok.... So with the salad your giving her stick to leafy greens from the Gutload image along with what you need to be gutloading with. You want it to be heavy on the greens fruits last.. Think of the image as a food pyramid. You are also rotating these week over week for nutrient diversity. She should be fed in the morning. All feeders at once.. This gives her all day to bask and digest. No mealworms they are low in nutrients. See image.
  • Supplements - I dust the crickets with calcium every time I feed her. The brand is Zoo med reptile calcium. It does not include D3. She will need calcium without D3 at every feeding, calcium with D3 2 times a month, and a multivitamin 2 times a month. These two should alternate week over week. See image.
  • Watering - She has a little water-well at the bottom of her cage that only dispenses a bit at a time. I change it about every 2 days. I mist about 4 times a day for about 1-3 minutes. I have only seen her drink twice with her tongue. Nope water well has to go... Bacteria is a high concern here. If she poops in it or a feeder falls into it then she is drinking that. So little dripper or you can do an auto dripper like in this thread. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/automatic-drip-system-using-pump-instructions-the-better-little-dripper.169471/ Misting is good. You may want to invest in a mist king misting system. :)
  • Fecal Description - Standard poop I hope - Not runny or too dry - a bit of white. She has not been tested for parasites. Is it orange/yellow with the white? This is called the Urate. I would get a fecal done to be sure she does not have parasites.
  • History - My roommate and I adopted this chameleon out of a small glass tank that she occupied with two other larger males. This is my first veiled chameleon and tried my best to educate myself about these amazing creatures. She has developed quite a personality ( not in a bad way lol) and is very active. She does not look to be all that old.. So hopefully no issues of fertile eggs here.

Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - I went to my local pet store and picked up a mesh cage. The dimensions are H 16" L X 16" W X 30" The brand is Zoo med Repti Breeze. Your going to want to get a 2x2x4 enclosure..... www.dragonstrand.com or diycages.com are both much better choices then zoo med. you need this size to accommodate a permanent lay bin. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345/
  • Lighting - After doing some research I decided to opt out of the light that this specific kit came with. I am unscrewed the little blue bulb that the kit came with and replaced it ReptiSun 5.0 UV. The other light that I added was a basking light. My roommate helped me shop for one and I cannot find the box. It is a flat wide, football shaped light that is attached with springs and little hooks to the mesh. The little sticker on the side indicates it is a 7 watt. I know nothing about light bulbs and My roommate helped me with the selection - I texted her and will provide this information ASAP. I am saving for the other lights I have seen recommended here in the forums that are long and skinny rather than flat and square. I turn her light on around 9 and then turn it off around dusk ( 6:45- 7:10) both the basking and the UV Lights should be on for 12 hours then total darkness for 12 hours. I am guessing you are using screw in UVB bulbs... You must upgrade this to a T5HO fixture with a 10.0 zoo med bulb or a 12% arcadia. I buy my fixtures from lightyourreptiles.com... You wan this to be the length of her permanent enclosure. So 24 inches. Yes it can hang off the sides of the current enclosure. :) see image.
  • Temperature - The lowest temp is around 70 I suppose at the bottom of the cage - the hottest would probably be around 83-86 degrees. Her lowest temperature overnight in her enclosure was 64 degrees. I turned the heat on for a bit and that seemed to help. I have one indicator at the base of the cage and one wrapped around a little branch in the center. I measure her basking light now and then to make sure they are below 88 degrees. I place my hand under her light too, I want to make sure she is comfortable. This is perfect as long as the temp at the branch is about 82 then she will not be warmer then 85. Using a heat gun will help you know exacts and they are about 15 bucks on amazon. No colored bulbs though..
  • Humidity - Her humidity levels are around 58. I misread the information when I first put her in her enclosure and was trying to maintain it around 80 >.<After reading how this can cause the chameleon to be sick (RI I think?) I started to taper off. I am misting her about 4 times a day for about 1-3 minutes depending on how much moisture is on her plants. I use a indicator the is set in the middle of the enclosure. So for Veileds you want a daytime humidity level of 30-50% max... At night is when you want this higher... When it is cooler. Most use foggers at night for this. Here is a good podcast... https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-89-naturalistic-hydration-for-chameleons/
  • Plants - Artificial Plants- none live.
  • Placement - The cage is located near a traffic area is moderate. She is located outside of my bedroom door in the living room away from direct sunlight or vents/heating. She is on a small yet very sturdy coffee table located about 6 inches off the ground to help assist with me feeding her ( bad hips lol) So... 6 inches off the ground will be an issue for her. Since they are arboreal they prefer to be up high. Try to find a table that she can sit up higher on that will accommodate your hip as well.
  • Location - Central Washington, United States

Current Problem - Possible Thermal Burns, General Health and How to make her more comfortable... Good news is no sign of thermal burns. These are her markings that are showing... classic female markings.

Notes on what I can see if your cage... Take out the hammock and the hide a hole thing... Think trees and live plants. Pothos and dwarf umbrella are wonderful. 1 inch river rock should be put on the top of the soil to keep her from eating it. :)

Additional resource...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

The care images can be downloaded at this link for an easy printed reference tool.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/images/
Water well has officially been cancelled.
Thank you for the great feeding resources - I will stop by the store tomorrow morning and work on improving her diet with the items in the graphic you have provided for me :)
I will invest in the Vitamins and and the D3 supplements tomorrow as well. Just to make sure I am understanding correctly - I alternate between the D3 and the multivitamin every week?
Awesome! thank you for the lighting recommendation - I will look into this tonight and see how fast it can be delivered - the last thing I want is damage to her beautiful eyes!
Do you have a recommendation for your heat gun? This sounds like a great idea :)
I will fix her humidity now - leaving a note for my roommate so she is aware of the changes too
I noticed you also bolded the 'no live plants' section - What are some plants that she would enjoy? - was this the pothos and dwarf umbrella you were referring to? Thank you :)
I am concerned about the bottom of her cage because I have placed a little moss, grass pads down. Based on your recommendation I should swap this out for some soil?
I will look into the fogger - this is one of the items I will try to pick up tomorrow in town
I was also thinking she would like to be higher up - I will try to find something to help us both out ;)
Consider the coconut and her starwars hammock gone
BLESS! I am so glad she is not burned and I truly appreciate the time you took in your response. Thank you Thank you!
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Water well has officially been cancelled.
Thank you for the great feeding resources - I will stop by the store tomorrow morning and work on improving her diet with the items in the graphic you have provided for me :)
I will invest in the Vitamins and and the D3 supplements tomorrow as well. Just to make sure I am understanding correctly - I alternate between the D3 and the multivitamin every week?
Awesome! thank you for the lighting recommendation - I will look into this tonight and see how fast it can be delivered - the last thing I want is damage to her beautiful eyes!
Do you have a recommendation for your heat gun? This sounds like a great idea :)
I will fix her humidity now - leaving a note for my roommate so she is aware of the changes too
I noticed you also bolded the 'no live plants' section - What are some plants that she would enjoy? - was this the pothos and dwarf umbrella you were referring to? Thank you :)
I am concerned about the bottom of her cage because I have placed a little moss, grass pads down. Based on your recommendation I should swap this out for some soil?
I will look into the fogger - this is one of the items I will try to pick up tomorrow in town
I was also thinking she would like to be higher up - I will try to find something to help us both out ;)
Consider the coconut and her starwars hammock gone
BLESS! I am so glad she is not burned and I truly appreciate the time you took in your response. Thank you Thank you!
So yes it is the calcium with D3 and the multivitamin you will rotate week over week.
I have this heat gun... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FYVEJMY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
the pothos and dwarf umbrella are both excellent plant options
So you really want to strip anything out of the bottom of the cage... Unless you have a bioactive cage we do not recommend anything on the bottom. This makes it easier for clean up. Most people use drip pans. dragonstrand.com sells them as well or you can buy something like this and drill holes in the bottom piece of the cage for the water to drip through... https://www.amazon.com/DiversiTech-6-2424L-Drain-Plastic-Large/dp/B00QW2J380/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=drain+pan&qid=1559973180&s=industrial&sr=1-4
You are looking for either a reptile specific fogger with a hose... This gets attached to the top of the cage to flow down and in.

Let us know what other questions come up :)
 

amfire125

Established Member
@Beman It looks like a 5.0 or 6% UVB is recommended and that's what I've always read/followed. Is there any reason you suggested a 10.0 or 12%? I'm curious as you are one heck of an expert! I was always under the impression a 10.0/12% was more for beardies and other desert reptiles.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
@Beman It looks like a 5.0 or 6% UVB is recommended and that's what I've always read/followed. Is there any reason you suggested a 10.0 or 12%? I'm curious as you are one heck of an expert! I was always under the impression a 10.0/12% was more for beardies and other desert reptiles.
If you are using a quad fixture then you have to do a 10.0 or a 12%. If you are doing a single bulb fixture then you want a 5.0 or a 6% bulb. I am by no means an expert.... lol just a newbie.
 

amfire125

Established Member
Ahh okay that makes sense though! I have a double bulb fixture that has been great. You definitely have done more homework than the average keeper...not a newbie! lol. Thanks!!
 
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